Bait hive - anyone found anything we can re purpose?

[polomadh]

The advice is to use a box around 40L for a bait hive. Being somewhat lazy, and prefer to liberate something that was previously used for something else (repurposing is a new fangled term I have heard of late) I was wondering

Has anyone found a source of a 40L + or minus 5L
box that can be used as a bait box, rather than make/buy one?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I use old poly 14x12 nucs, having abandoned the original Paynes design for a nuc brood on a wooden floor. I have found over the years that the bees swarm more readily into a taller narrower box than a squat BS Nat.Lots of people use old hives just as successfully, though.

 

[Little John]

Take the 40L stuff with a pinch of salt - I keep trying to tell people that this is a flawed finding, but 'the true believers' don't want to hear this.

Consider: the size of a swarm influences the size of the box it is attracted to, and ultimately chooses - most people (even Finman) recognise this. But - there is no such thing as a BSS (the British Standard Swarm) !! They vary in size, with their size being a function of the colony size they eminate from (and therefore the size of box that colony was housed in). Thus - any idea of a Standard-sized bait hive must be flawed. And this is just considering Prime Swarms, for as we all know Cast Swarms are far smaller in size than Primes.

So - be more concerned with the number of swarm traps you put out, and their 'spread' around the area, then just their size.

Some people have used upturned tree pots and buckets - attach a piece of old plywood to the underside with a hole 20-50mm or so near the centre. Suspend in a tree or other likely spot.
It would make sense to attach another piece of plywood to the underside of the top ("There's a hole in my bucket, Dear Liza, Dear Liza ...") to which you could attach short bars - to become starter strips - and if you attach these to the plywood with screws from above, then if/when combs are drawn from them, they can be removed intact and tie-wrapped underneath Frame top-bars, or just 'Top-Bars', if you're so inclined.

When you consider that bees have been known to set up home in just about anything - from utility boxes to old car tyres - just about any container you can lay your hands on is worth putting out. Just try to make sure that the inside is as dark as possible, and that it smells 'right'. Old comb is favourite, scraps of propolis etc.
Best of luck
LJ

 

[domino]

I just use spare hives, add a lure and some brood frames seems to work okay.

 

[oliver90owner]

Being somewhat lazy

Your initial laziness will likely be dwarfed by the potential problem of transferring any collected swarm from your 'repurposed' container to your real hive.

Picking something that will accommodate your frame size is the obvious starting point. I used 14 x 12 nucleus hives with a nucleus sized shallow below. That allowed simple transfer, if shifted early, or some expansion if in situ for a few days. It also gave a volume close to the recognised 'preferred' cavity size.

So, 'repurposed' hive boxes are the obvious preferred choice. Reinventing the wheel is unecessary and it will often entail more work than taking the simple options available - and the bait hive can be re-purposed as an over-wintering hive for a nucleus colony with little effort (for a lazy beekeeper).

 

[fatshark]

Two stacked supers and a botched Correx floor and roof, together with a polythene 'crownboard'.

 

[Dadnlad]

Some local farmers markets have broccoli/cauliflower in poly boxes - not quite big enough to take frames and not dense enough poly for a nuc, but lightweight and grand for swarm taking or bait hives

 

[philipm]

I use old hive parts with a frame or two of foundation removed from bailey comb changes. On saying that I don't think the bees are too fussy and the 40l rule is a crock of s**t. I once left a floor an eke and a roof on the ground in the apiary planning to move them when I had time only for a swarm to move in before I had a chance.

 

[MartinL]

Being somewhat lazy

Your initial laziness will likely be dwarfed by the potential problem of transferring any collected swarm from your 'repurposed' container to your real hive.

Picking something that will accommodate your frame size is the obvious starting point.

More haste - Less speed
or should it be;
Less expenditure - more time/effort?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bees will nest anywhere. I once caught a small cast by putting s nuc box on top of a cavernous compost bin they had been investigating for a couple of days

 

[polomadh]

I take the point that bees will do what they will. I am surprised and the 40L is crocks#it comment though. Seeleys research showed they had a strong preference for 40L, but even so occasionally they would choose something less optimal (size, orientation, height) 40L maximises the chance. To dismiss the research out of hand is an odd thing

I prefer to use my hive and nuc boxes as that!

I think the conclusion is that ŵe haven't really found anything, although the broccoli boxes are close, they are annoyingly just a little too small for a fame

 

[user 6228]

Two stacked supers and a botched Correx floor and roof, together with a polythene 'crownboard'.

This was going to be my suggestion, supers are not usually all in use come swarming time, the spare supers being able to hang a brood frame. A sheet of PIR for the roof and black correx for the floor with a 15 sq cm hole in it gaffer taped on. Put his on a board with a 1" piece of scrap wood wedged underneath to so the bees can get at the hole in correx.

 

[Beefriendly]

I am surprised and the 40L is crocks#it comment though. Seeleys research showed they had a strong preference for 40L, but even so occasionally they would choose something less optimal (size, orientation, height) 40L maximises the chance. To dismiss the research out of hand is an odd thing

Hearsay appears much more believable than proven research, alas.
I would add one thing to Seeley's research that rarely gets mentioned, he was using Italian bees and it is possible that other sub-species have different size preferences when "nest hunting".

 

[Swarm]

Swarms choose so many different sites, I wouldn't take too much notice of specific volume. Open comb in an outhouse roof, compost bins, and I've seen two in BT cabinets. What attracts them to a bait box is the bee smell and then a convenient cavity IMO.

 

[Angularity]

I had a plan to use two wooden wine boxes from Majestic (about a fiver each), one inverted on top of the other, with end extensions at the right width to take frames and an hole drilled in.

It was far more complicated than buying the cheapest nuc box on eBay. I didn't bother with it.

I did read that a plastic coolbox with a hole drilled in the side might work.

 

[philipm]

The big problem is bees can't read all the research so how would they know what size space they should be in?

 

[Beefriendly]

The big problem is bees can't read all the research so how would they know what size space they should be in?

It's programmed through their genetics. Usually they select the best available option at that particular time, be that a BT cabinet or your compost bin. When they are given multiple choices and different swarms routinely choose one site/size/entrance direction etc over another then you realise they are expressing a preference for their "ideal" next nest site. But these decisions are not binary as in yes/no but usually, as in most times. If the ideal is not available then the next best and so on will have to do. Occasionally they can't make up their minds and remain clustered.

 

[alldigging]

The big problem is bees can't read all the research so how would they know what size space they should be in?

In the wild it will surely depend on the type of trees in the area and how big the hollows get?
I don't if anyone has measured all the unused cavities in a forest to see the range of ones they didn't pick.

 

[Bucks_Boy]

Brand new (unused) fish boxes

About 7 years ago I bought 4 polystyrene fish boxes off ebay for a tenner.
They were around 40-45 ltr and the same approx shape and exterior size as a Paynes 6 frame nuc.
Glued in a couple of small wooden pieces so that I could hang old brood frames, drilled a 50p sized hole in the front and a bit of bungy to hold the lid on.
Still have 2 of them and each year I catch more swarms in them than in a couple of old nuc boxes I have - when put within 6ft of each other , the old polybox gets filled first.
Only hassle is that in the 10-15 days that swarms tend to occupy them before I have a chance to move them they chew open the hole a little more each time.

 

[REDWOOD]

I bet if you made a hole in an up turned dustbin with an old frame in it they would move in. Really bees aren't that fussy


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