Bailey change few combs

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Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
19
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Location
Manchester
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
2+1
I have a 14x12 national box for the brood. When I bought my first nucleus late last summer they were on five deep national frames. They over wintered on these five, plus two 14x12s they drew out at the end of the summer, dummied down with a bit of insulation board. Four of the deeps and both 14x12s now have brood on, and a couple more 14x12s have been quite well drawn out with some stores on. I've worked one of the deep frames to the edge as it was all stores. The queen is marked red and seems to be laying well enough to me.

I would like remove the deep frames quickly as they are making a mess on inspections (plenty of drone brood getting attached to the inside of the box and breaking off when lifted out). This isn't too much of a problem now, but I can see it getting worse through the summer as some damage is done to the combs each time. The frames and combs themselves also look quite old, so perhaps a change is in order. I have chopped up some of this damaged, sealed drone brood and found no varroa at all, nor on the inspection board, and in my inexperience have no reason to suspect any other disease.

I have another 14x12 box. Can I lift the 14x12 frames into it, fill it out with frames of foundation, and leave the deeps where they are, then stack the two boxes with the deeps below, putting a queen excluder between when appropriate, as with a Bailey change?

I can see that it can be done practically, so have been trying to think of reasons not to. Perhaps the brood on the deep frames might be exposed to the cold? I would dummy them down in the centre of their box, and I guess there would remain plenty of bees there. Or perhaps the bees in the bottom box with plenty of brood would be inclined to try to raise a queen, even though there is a queen laying just above them? Or would they simply abandon this brood and move up with the queen? I doubt this last one most. Or some other reason?

I could simply shake them off, but I'm keen to keep the brood on the deeps if possible, as there are lots of bees there which I'd be sorry to chuck out, and which I guess will make a worthwhile contribution to building up the colony. Shaking would be easier, but having only one colony efficiency is not important to me. I have read that shook swarming 'invigorates' the bees. Does this imply that after ten weeks or so there is no real difference in colony strength, compared to not having lost all that brood? Or that colonies are stronger following shook swarm in spite of the loss? Three weeks later the result should be the same in either case: lots of new comb. But the way I am thinking of saves four frames of brood.

I'd be grateful for any advice.
Mark
 
Mark,
A bailey change should be fine. It's what I did when in your situation. Suggest you move a frame of drawn 14x12 comb to the top brood box so that the queen can start to lay immediately. If your existing brood box is 'dummied down' then do the same with the new top brood box. Unless you are having a very strong nectar flow from OSR, you should feed the bees syrup from above the new brood box. 3 weeks when all brood on lower brood box has hatched, you can remove the lower box. If the 14x12 comb in the lower box is relatively new, it can then moved 'upstairs' and you can remove dummy boards.
Hope that helps.
 
I would put your existing 14x12 frames in the new box. Move your 5 D Nat frames t.o the front of the old box and then put in dummy board. Put 5/6 14x12 frames in new box and put on top of old box so frames are directly above each other (Q ex between boxes). Not too much excess space to keep warm, after three weeks you can remove bottom box and add more frames to fill up new box.
 
Move your 5 D Nat frames t.o the front of the old box

That may well be possible, but a bit presumptive that the current box is not 'cold way'.

I could simply shake them off,-

Not particularly a good idea to shake deeps with wild comb attached,

Better to brush them off, carefully, into the new top box with Q/E under. That way you should be reasonably sure the queen is upstairs, but the gentler way is to look for one day old eggs after a couple days and go from there. If she is downstairs, she will be easier to find - probably on brood frames with eggs.

There is no real need to feed if there is loads of stores in the hive - just bruise the cappings so the bees use it and shift it upstairs. Simples and job done - well, left for the bees to get on with it. I doubt the bees need 'nectar equivalent' to draw wax when honey will do just as well. KISS Principle in operation - don't waste time with syrup feeds if they have their own. Likely it will finish up in your honey! And likely the current stores in the brood frames is sugar syrup anyway! And if the stores are actually honey, they won't be by the time they are contaminated with sugar syrup.

RAB
 

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