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Hi

I'm making up my latest order to Thornes, and was wondering about Autumn varroa and Noseama treatments (got to plan in advance in case of delayed orders). Three questions if I may

a) Any opinions over the efficacy of Apiguard over Api Life Var or the oasis-home-brew method mentioned recently (or indeed anything else)

b) Non woodworker and no plans to learn about it just yet, so I'm assuming I'll need an eke to apply these. Is a super too deep to use as an eke in this case?

c) Fumidil B - should it only be applied in cases of suspected Nosema, or as a precaution anyway?

Thanks in advance
 

Brosville 

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"Fumidil B - should it only be applied in cases of suspected Nosema, or as a precaution anyway?"

Should anyone wonder what the sound of a cross between a tribe of banshees and a stadium full of vuvuzuelas full tilt is, it's me, indulging in primal scream therapy!
 
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roche 

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I think you should only treat for anything if you know you have to. Precautionary treatments only tend to promote resistance to the treatment...
 
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Bros - thats why I asked the question. I appreciate that you do not favour chemical intervention in most (any?) circumstances - which is a laudable viewpoint if not one that I'd necessarily agree with.

Personally I'm of the opinion that there are occasions where precautionary treatments can sometimes be justified, especially going into winter, but no idea if Fumicidil is one of them.
 

oliver90owner 

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you should only treat for anything if you know you have to

There lies the difference between a hobby beekeeper and a commercial outfit? Not necessarily, but the extremes might be the commercial boys and Brosville!

I did not treat any of my bees with oxalic over winter and the mite counts are very low. I wonder how many treated their colonies unnecessarily.....

Regards, RAB
(steps back from blue touch paper)
 

thedeaddiplomat 

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I hope you're referring to NEXT Autumn's treatments judging by the delay with T*****s orders!!
:rofl:

That's just a little unfair. I placed an order with them on 8 July. It arrived on 16 July. Perhaps not breathtaking speed - but pretty efficient, I thought.
 

jimbeekeeper 

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I placed an order with them on the 16th July and recived it today!

And as for only treating if required, does that mean I wait until my cat gets fleas to treat them? No I treat to prevent.

Arh role on my Bayer shares:party:
 

susbees 

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And as for only treating if required, does that mean I wait until my cat gets fleas to treat them? No I treat to prevent.
We've had no fleas on five cats and two dogs in the seven years we've been here. Preventative treatment? No way. This ain't vaccination you know!

Nosema preventative? Nuts. We had a nosema sampling day at the BKA last w/e where anyone could bring their 30 bee sample. Though little was seen there was a little here and there detectable even at this time of year.

BUT learn from worming livestock. Get it wrong and you'll run out of treatments.

We'll be making our own Apiguard and adding in the ApiVarLife oils in tiny amounts. Oxalic? Probably not this year.
 

Rosti 

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BUT learn from worming livestock. Get it wrong and you'll run out of treatments.
perhaps that should read apply it wrong, get lazy or fail to take a full evaluation of the circumstances.

In a live stock scenario, or flees, if you had an infected 'animal' you'd have to treat all of your stock / susceptable pets, plus environment. Surely the same in an apiary? Possible symptoms in one colony would result in treatment. What with robbing and inter colony migration, you cannot assume isolation, I would treat all on the site. I don't see there is an alternative? It is only pre-emptive to the extent that symptoms in the sister colonies are not yet apparent. That is not the same as there being no Nosema.

I've had to deal with this professionally, part of the problem with regard biotic resistance is poor dosing and sub-lethal exposure, building resistance - exactly what you get if you don't treat all vectors and harbourage points with equal and complete rigor.

I agree you don't use for the sake of it, but if you are going to make sure you do it right and fully. How many humans don't finish their course of tablets because the symptoms have gone ..........
 
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Hivemaker. 

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I agree Rosti,regards nosema,if your going to treat.....treat them all in the same apairy,if one has nosema then likely they will all have it by spring from contaminated water supply.
 

Rosti 

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Yep, harbourage and vectors!

That is where, as beeks, we could be shooting ourselves in the foot though. Wrt Nosema we can't absolutely determine harbourage, which probably isn't even under our geographic control most of the time.

In that sense Susbees argument carries, but then do you make rigourous application, take benefit and use a currently effectve treatment while it does carry efficacy? I says yes.
 

susbees 

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I agree Rosti,regards nosema,if your going to treat.....treat them all in the same apairy,if one has nosema then likely they will all have it by spring from contaminated water supply.
But not much point in all that unless you are going to recomb them all in the Spring an fumigate...due to the residual comb spores. Or not if you didn't work out which colonies were infected in the first place.

Microscopy has its uses ;).
 

MuswellMetro 

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you should only treat for anything if you know you have to

There lies the difference between a hobby beekeeper and a commercial outfit? Not necessarily, but the extremes might be the commercial boys and Brosville!

I did not treat any of my bees with oxalic over winter and the mite counts are very low. I wonder how many treated their colonies unnecessarily.....

Regards, RAB
(steps back from blue touch paper)
And one of our beeks treated with Apiguard and got no drop ,so did not treat with oxalic in December...sugared in April as Defromed Wing Syndrome seemed a bit high...he stopped count at 1000 mites
 

jimbeekeeper 

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take benefit and use a currently effectve treatment while it does carry efficacy? I says yes.
I view all of my hives as ONE in one apiary, that starts from blanceing them out by moving frames round to balance brood and stores out, to treatments.

Do they have varroa, yes, will I treat yes. Both Autumn with Apigaurd and winter with Oxalic acid.

Will I count mites? No, waste of time.

Will I treat for Nosema? Yes


How many humans don't finish their course of tablets because the symptoms have gone ..........
In my view my bees are still finishing off their course of treatment, to early to be cracking open the champagne ref Varroa in my view.

Lots of new keepers, with bees this year who might not treat, just wait for next year.

Also how many people can not even spot their queen, or eggs, difference between play cup or true queen cells, let alone Varroa or other diseases or infections?
 

Hivemaker. 

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Microscopy has its uses .

It does.....hence the reason i test mine twice a year.......thymol takes care of nosema no problem,and combs are fine uless they crap all over them. You need to treat every colony every year for if you have nosema in the ground.
 
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