Asian Hornets

[fian]

Just started walking the Camino de Finisterre in Galicia. A lot of Asian hornets easily seen - either feeding on grapes and brambles, or hawing over flowering mint. A real eye opener, and very distinctive with their nearly black bodies and yellow heads as they fly towards you. Easy to pick up dead ones on the road, which I guess have View attachment 37563been hit by cars.

The road to Finisterre?, you have reached Santiago and you are heading to the coast?. Although the photo misleads me.

 

[RJC]

The road to Finisterre?, you have reached Santiago and you are heading to the coast?. Although the photo misleads me.

I started in Santiago. The (poor) photo is two Asian hornets feeding on grapes. This one in roadkill

 

[Karol]

It's crazy to use King's Gunpowder (his custard poisoned with fipronil) to remove velutins.
-30% of the poison remains in the nest, available to kill decomposers.
-Fipronil acts by contact, being able to eliminate the carrier halfway.
-The biological breakdown of fipronil leaves compounds that are more dangerous than fipronil itself.
-The activity of pressure in the apiary returns two weeks after ceasing the bait.
-It is not a specific bait, any other living being can be tempted to eat it, especially the European hornet.

Empty vessels.

You clearly have no concept of the method or strategy so you shut the door on the one really effective treatment for eradicating Velutina.

For your information, when the method was trialled in Portugal it cleared Velutina from an apiary effectively for more than a season not just a fortnight. Had the method been adopted by a significant proportion of beekeepers simultaneously Velutina would have been nigh on eliminated.

And, not for the last time, using egg yolk inactivates the fipronil and reduces the half life to a matter of hours so all your non target fears are baseless and the amount of fipronil used is miniscule, a fraction of a fraction of a drop so environmentally there's more risk from letting your dog go swimming in a puddle.

 

[fian]

Empty vessels.

You clearly have no concept of the method or strategy so you shut the door on the one really effective treatment for eradicating Velutina.

For your information, when the method was trialled in Portugal it cleared Velutina from an apiary effectively for more than a season not just a fortnight. Had the method been adopted by a significant proportion of beekeepers simultaneously Velutina would have been nigh on eliminated.

And, not for the last time, using egg yolk inactivates the fipronil and reduces the half life to a matter of hours so all your non target fears are baseless and the amount of fipronil used is miniscule, a fraction of a fraction of a drop so environmentally there's more risk from letting your dog go swimming in a puddle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10339917/I am attaching the study carried out in the Basque Country (Spain). Despite having three consecutive seasons, the velutina continues to exist.
I suppose that the commercials of Bayer&Co (discoverer and marketer of fipronil will be fine with their argument) but the fact is that fipronil has been banned in the EU, USA, China, Colombia as a fumigation treatment in monoculture agricultural fields.

 

[Karol]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10339917/I am attaching the study carried out in the Basque Country (Spain). Despite having three consecutive seasons, the velutina continues to exist.
I suppose that the commercials of Bayer&Co (discoverer and marketer of fipronil will be fine with their argument) but the fact is that fipronil has been banned in the EU, USA, China, Colombia as a fumigation treatment in monoculture agricultural fields.

Like I said, empty vessels.

You make assumptions conflating protein baiting with fipronil (which is completely different) to the method being discussed. Of course protein baiting with fipronil won't work but that is not the technique that is being discussed.

Baiting requires consumption which kills the scouting Velutina so the scout cannot report the location of the hive back to the nest. This provides the hive with respite for two weeks because nest mates are not recruited to the hive but does not kill the nest because the fipronil never makes it back to the nest. The use of fipronil baiting is irresponsible and ecologically unacceptable because it cannot be controlled as a process.

Fipronil custard is a highly targetted catch and release method. It works to exploit wasp preening and trophallaxis. Central to the technique is the objective that the scout carries the fipronil custard back to the nest without consuming it. This is achieved by marking the scout with the fipronil custard on the back rear area on the thorax so the scout cannot get to the fipronil custard itself. The use of fipronil syrup doesn't work because the cuticle is hydrophobic so the syrup doesn't stick. Egg yolk is added to emulsify the fipronil syrup to make it stick to the cuticle. It has the benefit of adding to the nutrional quality of the fipronil treatment making it more appealing to Velutina.

The treated scout is released and returns to the nest. It makes it back because it has not consumed the fipronil. Back at the nest the sentries (or the queen in immature nests) preen the fipronil custard and disseminate it to the queen via trophallaxis thus killing the queen.

It is by pure chance that egg yolk overtime binds the fipronil and inactivates it which means the custard has to be prepared each time immediately before use.

The fipronil custard method is a catch release trojan bomb and NOT a baiting method.

 

[fian]

Like I said, empty vessels.

You make assumptions conflating protein baiting with fipronil (which is completely different) to the method being discussed. Of course protein baiting with fipronil won't work but that is not the technique that is being discussed.

Baiting requires consumption which kills the scouting Velutina so the scout cannot report the location of the hive back to the nest. This provides the hive with respite for two weeks because nest mates are not recruited to the hive but does not kill the nest because the fipronil never makes it back to the nest. The use of fipronil baiting is irresponsible and ecologically unacceptable because it cannot be controlled as a process.

Fipronil custard is a highly targetted catch and release method. It works to exploit wasp preening and trophallaxis. Central to the technique is the objective that the scout carries the fipronil custard back to the nest without consuming it. This is achieved by marking the scout with the fipronil custard on the back rear area on the thorax so the scout cannot get to the fipronil custard itself. The use of fipronil syrup doesn't work because the cuticle is hydrophobic so the syrup doesn't stick. Egg yolk is added to emulsify the fipronil syrup to make it stick to the cuticle. It has the benefit of adding to the nutrional quality of the fipronil treatment making it more appealing to Velutina.

The treated scout is released and returns to the nest. It makes it back because it has not consumed the fipronil. Back at the nest the sentries (or the queen in immature nests) preen the fipronil custard and disseminate it to the queen via trophallaxis thus killing the queen.

It is by pure chance that egg yolk overtime binds the fipronil and inactivates it which means the custard has to be prepared each time immediately before use.

The fipronil custard method is a catch release trojan bomb and NOT a baiting method.

Study it please, otherwise everything you say lacks support.

 

[Karol]

Study it please, otherwise everything you say lacks support.

What makes you think I haven't studied it?

It's typical of a lot of research work I've seen which is performed in ignorance of wasp bevaviour. The experiment was doomed to failure from the outset. The research you cite is also experimentally flawed beyond belief invalidating all of the conclusions drawn.

 

[Tony Warren]

What more can we learn from this case? Who can report on this?

Date of the first sighting, nests found, destroyed, baits tried, what happened to the colonies (died over winter or overcome by hornets), Mitigations tried, reduced entrances? moving hives?

From my conversation with the beek, Week 0 Asian Hornet seen and reported, Week 1 first AH trapped..... Week 6 hive losses - 3 remain out of original 17. I have spent a bit of time there, you can watch the AHs hawking, then at a point the hive roars (i assume in distress) within a day or two it will be dead. This BBKA hosted talk by Andrew Durham is worth a watch .

 

[Ian123]

From my conversation with the beek, Week 0 Asian Hornet seen and reported, Week 1 first AH trapped..... Week 6 hive losses - 3 remain out of original 17. I have spent a bit of time there, you can watch the AHs hawking, then at a point the hive roars (i assume in distress) within a day or two it will be dead. This BBKA hosted talk by Andrew Durham is worth a watch .

The effects of the Hornets are quite well documented, can I ask then how beeks in Jersey France Spain,areas that are truly populated with them have not reported losses of 3/4 of hives!
Even our Spanish friend is not reporting those losses or those beekeepers people are in contact with in Jersey.

 

[fian]

The effects of the Hornets are quite well documented, can I ask then how beeks in Jersey France Spain,areas that are truly populated with them have not reported losses of 3/4 of hives!
Even our Spanish friend is not reporting those losses or those beekeepers people are in contact with in Jersey.

Some links with loss report.
https://www.farodevigo.es/o-morrazo...scasa-floracion-causan-perdidas-15893501.htmlhttps://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...es-miel-recluir-abejas/0003_201804V1C2991.htmhttps://www.20minutos.es/noticia/50...-generalitat-actue-contra-la-avispa-velutina/https://www.lavozdeasturias.es/noti...lleva-abejas-leon/00031665420968781120936.htm

 

[Ian123]

Some links with loss report.
https://www.farodevigo.es/o-morrazo...scasa-floracion-causan-perdidas-15893501.htmlhttps://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...es-miel-recluir-abejas/0003_201804V1C2991.htmhttps://www.20minutos.es/noticia/50...-generalitat-actue-contra-la-avispa-velutina/https://www.lavozdeasturias.es/noti...lleva-abejas-leon/00031665420968781120936.htm

Yet beekeepers and hive numbers have increased substantially?

 

[fian]

Yet beekeepers and hive numbers have increased substantially?

If in general, beekeeping is becoming more professional, young beekeepers with more hives and means compared to seniors with self-consumption hives who retire from the activity.
In addition, these losses are assuming an expense.
-12 additional euros per hive to increase reserves for wintering.
-200 euros of average cost for electric harps.
-Activity insurance
This implies that without this additional investment, the losses would be greater than what happens during the first seasons of contact.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

From my conversation with the beek, Week 0 Asian Hornet seen and reported, Week 1 first AH trapped..... Week 6 hive losses - 3 remain out of original 17. I have spent a bit of time there, you can watch the AHs hawking, then at a point the hive roars (i assume in distress) within a day or two it will be dead. This BBKA hosted talk by Andrew Durham is worth a watch .

Thanks. Yes, watched this last night on YouTube. Will be watching the second lecture tonight. Excellent. Recommend it to everyone.

 

[Ian123]

If in general, beekeeping is becoming more professional, young beekeepers with more hives and means compared to seniors with self-consumption hives who retire from the activity.
In addition, these losses are assuming an expense.
-12 additional euros per hive to increase reserves for wintering.
-200 euros of average cost for electric harps.
-Activity insurance
This implies that without this additional investment, the losses would be greater than what happens during the first seasons of contact.

I don’t think you understand what most amateur uk beeks are prepared to spend on their hobby if as you suggest now and previously you think cost is a factor!

 

[Parsonage Bees]

The effects of the Hornets are quite well documented, can I ask then how beeks in Jersey France Spain,areas that are truly populated with them have not reported losses of 3/4 of hives!
Even our Spanish friend is not reporting those losses or those beekeepers people are in contact with in Jersey.

Statistics.
One apiary looses 75% of their hives which happens to be near a concentration of undetected AH nests. woodland. 5 apiaries a few miles away that are handled differently, nests are found easily and destroyed. Beekeeper with an ace backhand with a badminton racket. Loose 1 hive each.
Average across the area 20% losses. #edit# guesstimate 20%

 

[fian]

I don’t think you understand what most amateur uk beeks are prepared to spend on their hobby if as you suggest now and previously you think cost is a factor!

I admit that for some beekeepers the activity may be perceived as a recreational activity but for the majority the effect of the increase in costs will have an impact on their perception.
For this reason I have published a survey. Now it's time to get wet and 2 answers can be marked.

 

[Ian123]

I admit that for some beekeepers the activity may be perceived as a recreational activity but for the majority the effect of the increase in costs will have an impact on their perception.
For this reason I have published a survey. Now it's time to get wet and 2 answers can be marked.

For the vast majority of UK beeks the activity is recreational! And whilst many do not have a bottomless pit the increased costs you mention are really a drop in the ocean compared to what many are paying when they starting or increasing numbers……Of all the implications of Asian hornets I doubt cost will figure highly in particular for the hobbyists….
I can see a few of the main suppliers urgently on the phone to china for some wonderful plastic hornet deterrent

 

[fian]

Your comment is curious given that there are several posts that talk about the increase in the cost of jars, sugar or wintering food.
And there is also one dedicated to the low price of syrups of dubious origin, creating a clear and unacceptable unfair competition (in my opinion)

For the vast majority of UK beeks the activity is recreational! And whilst many do not have a bottomless pit the increased costs you mention are really a drop in the ocean compared to what many are paying when they starting or increasing numbers……Of all the implications of Asian hornets I doubt cost will figure highly in particular for the hobbyists….
I can see a few of the main suppliers urgently on the phone to china for some wonderful plastic hornet deterrent

.

 

[Ian123]

Your comment is curious given that there are several posts that talk about the increase in the cost of jars, sugar or wintering food.
And there is also one dedicated to the low price of syrups of dubious origin, creating a clear and unacceptable unfair competition (in my opinion)


.

Yes costs have increased but I’ve yet to see an amateur beek of any experience or a little nouse that can’t shift all the honey they produce!

 

[fian]

Yes costs have increased but I’ve yet to see an amateur beek of any experience or a little nouse that can’t shift all the honey they produce!

We'll see if he still thinks the same when yields drop to less than 15kg (30 pounds) per hive in a good year.