Are swarms attracted to apiaries?

[Helen]

As I said in another post recently, I found a small swarm under a seat in my garden on Monday. I carefully checked my 3 hives: 2 showed absolutley no signs of swarming and had good amounts of stores and space. The 3rd had a couple of queen cells, so I AS'd it.

Got back this evening, and neighbour came across saying they had a swarm in their garden. It was a large (primary?) swarm which had got stuck right into the middle base of a buddlia. Definitely larger than yesterday's swarm.

So, assuming it's not from my hives, are swarms attracted to apiaries at all? I know that there are other hives around my house. My house is also right on the edge of the large expanse of woodland and that could be an attractant for local swarms as well?

I will check my hives again to make sure it's not mine. Was too dark tonight.

I captured the swarm and its currently sitting in a locked down nuc.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I get a few swarms each year at the garden apiary - definitely not mine. never had a swarm there until the bees moved back in (it used to be my Uncle Rhys's apiary back in the 50's and 60's)

 

[Bosleeu]

Didn't even know of any bees in the vicinity and certainly not seen any swarms till I got my bees. Now there are plenty of swarms every year that cluster in the vicinity, mostly in the same places. Never seem to be mine, the swarms I have lost seem to go elsewhere,as I have never knowingly collected a swarm of my own bees

So, yes I think they are attracted to apiaries, but not necessarily near where they swarmed from.

 

[BeeJayBee]

In our experience yes, but not the same as the ones you've found in your apiary.

We had two swarms arrive last year, heard and then saw one of them flying towards the apiary and then housing itself in a bait hive but only discovered the other one when we realised there were bees coming out of an empty nuc.

The swarms you've discovered in your apiary haven't yet found themselves a home, so are likely to be from a nearby colony because they don't often fly very far before clustering.

I'm sure somebody else will know the average distance they fly from their original home before settling, and then sending out scouts to find somewhere more permanent.

 

[Tawny Owl]

Origin Colony to cluster is quoted at up to 100m. Cluster to destination up to a couple of miles.

 

[beeno]

Hi Helen,
Since your colonies are producing QCs, then I think, as a starting point, you should assume they are yours and tighten up your inspection procedure. It is easy to miss QCs and I know of people who miss a whole frame of emergency cells! No disrespect intended, it is meant as a means of trying to regain control and it will be exactly what your neighbour thinks anyhow. Good luck.

 

[oliver90owner]

Assuming in beekeeping is not good practice. Assumptions are often wrong. It is sooo simple to check. Far better than assuming. Actually knowi g is always better than guessing.

 

[Finman]

.
During my 50 y beekeeping years, I have got 2 swarms into my empty hives

 

[beeno]

Assuming in beekeeping is not good practice. Assumptions are often wrong. It is sooo simple to check. Far better than assuming. Actually knowi g is always better than guessing.

I totally agree with you, but it is an important starting point. Swarm after swarm appearing in any beek's garden the first port of call should be your own hives, unless you have an out of control beek within 100m. Even experienced beeks miss QCs and if you assume the swarm is not yours you may not look very carefully. The neighbours are not on the forum, we can be honest!

 

[beeno]

Helen,
One point that comes up regarding your OP is that in 'real life' bees don't congregate in apiary type set ups, because of competition for forage. So, this myth may have been created by beeks not recognising that it is their own swarm, on its first stop off within 20-60m of the parent hive, that they are looking at. There is always the exception of course.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll reiterate.
Each year I get swarms that are not mine turning up at the home apiary. Once, a blue marked queen when all my queens were marked yellow or white (or did she change the colour herself to throw me off the track?) Last year - three, all with unmarked queens where all of my queens were marked and confirmed present after they arrived.
as I said earlier I get swarms turning up at my apiary every year that are definitely not mine.nearest other apiary is just over a mile away.Never noticed a swarm landing in the vicinity before I had an apiary behind the garden.

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Yep, me too, 2 swarms from elsewhere arrived here into my bait hives last year. My own marked queens were all present and correct. I'd never even seen a swarm before I took up beekeeping.

Although I will confess that I did have one hung up in the tree that was mine though! Easily spotted from the marking!

 

[Mrs Webmuppet]

Last year I had a swarm turn up and move into an old hive my mentor had left in my garden.I only had a nucleus at the time. They definitely weren't anything to do with my bees, they were much darker in colour.

 

[chrismcd]

Bees never read textbooks

Yes, I was taught that swarms were setting off for pastures new.

However, I am no longer quite so sure. My lot are lazy sods and seem to follow the "bait hive" principle; that if other bees have done well in the area so will they.

I have had swarms move into stacks of supers left outside in my apiary and a number of swarms are regularly attracted to my steam wax extractor - which is well away from the apiary to minimise "assistants" turning up!

I suppose that it simply proves that the "bait" in bait hive is what matters.

 

[Travelator]

Helen,
... in 'real life' bees don't congregate in apiary type set ups, because of competition for forage. ...

This is an interesting question. From a colony's point of view, it might be nice to have no other colonies within a mile radius to avoid competing for forage. However, if they are forced to have neighbours then it doesn't really make any difference if they're 10 yards away or 100. Perhaps living together in clusters has some advantages in the wild? Better chance of defending against bears? Presence of other colonies suggests that local conditions are survivable?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One point that comes up regarding your OP is that in 'real life' bees don't congregate in apiary type set ups, because of competition for forage.

Is that so? any supporting evidence for this? or is it just an assumption based on the fact that in 'real life' you don't always get clusters of hollow trees thus they have no choice but to life further away from each other.
I'm not sure whether it was on here a few years ago that someone reported three or four (maybe more) feral colonies all living in the structure of an old manor house

 

[Hivemaker.]

One point that comes up regarding your OP is that in 'real life' bees don't congregate in apiary type set ups, because of competition for forage.

Apis Dorsata, they are also honey bees you know.

 

[snelgrove]

Hi Helen,
Since your colonies are producing QCs, then I think, as a starting point, you should assume they are yours and tighten up your inspection procedure. It is easy to miss QCs and I know of people who miss a whole frame of emergency cells! No disrespect intended, it is meant as a means of trying to regain control and it will be exactly what your neighbour thinks anyhow. Good luck.

Easy to miss queen cells in a populous colony, frames must be given a sharp shake inside the brood chamber so the frame is clear of bees, making it easier to spot cells.

 

[Thymallus]

To add to this possible swarm preferred sites. I get an awful lot of calls out to swarms to static caravan parks. No known bee keepers nearby. Is this because there is something about the arial viewpoint of a caravan park that is "intrinsically" recognized as desirable by the swarm as an "intermediary" staging post? Or is it because there are more people around who notice the swarms?
Anyone else come across this?

 

[MuswellMetro]

I totally agree with you, but it is an important starting point. Swarm after swarm appearing in any beek's garden the first port of call should be your own hives, unless you have an out of control beek within 100m. Even experienced beeks miss QCs and if you assume the swarm is not yours you may not look very carefully. The neighbours are not on the forum, we can be honest!

i agree, had a instance a few years ago from a beekeeper who had kept bees for four years. i help him inspect and said tear down the queen cells (about 10 emergency cells on the face of the comb) and we promptable had a Heavy discussion as to why i thought the cells were queen cells~~~~they were classic emergency cells,the problem is you hardly ever see them descrided in books, they show the classic inch long peanut shape not the little bent down pointed emegency queen cells,the supplemenatry discussion was do you have small queens and lots of caste swarms? answer was Yes

He has less swarms since our discussion and has large fat queens instead of little stumpy intercast queens