Are honey bees domesticated?

[sugarbush]

I have frequently heard some beekeepers state that they are wild animals contrary to the fact they have been specifically bred for 3000 years. So what do you all think? Domestic livestock or wild animals kept confined?

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?262937-Is-the-European-Honey-Bee-domestic-or-wild

 

[Winker]

No, they are wild insects living in an area i allow them to

 

[Heather]

When they don't swarm, don't sting, produce wonderful queens to order, don't pile in ivy nectar in the Autumn and don't poo ALL over my house windows and car- -then they are domesticated...until then -NO

 

[sugarbush]

What about Buckfast bees? Would you call them wild as well considering the years of selective breeding it took to make them what they are?

 

[sugarbush]

I have yet to meet a domestic animal that doesn't poo all over something. Think you could house train a Holstein? I have owned a lot of horses, been bitten and kicked by every one of them.

 

[Winker]

What about Buckfast bees? Would you call them wild as well considering the years of selective breeding it took to make them what they are?

whether we do the selective breading or mother nature does, makes no odds. I don't control the bees i manipulate them to work for me not against me. When the bees swarm on my command maybe then you can call them domestic, but if they leave of their own free will to live in a tree does that still mean their domestic?

 

[Finman]

.
I think that house fly is more domesticated than bee.

In every summer morning , when sun is rising, a fly comes and give a good morning kiss. It likes to share our food, - poo on window not funny...

When I die, it lays its eggs ....to me...

Just comparing to bee.

 

[Hivemaker.]

They are classed as domesticated,but i think semi domesticated
may be a better term,or both wild and domesticated depending on the circumstances.

.To be considered domesticated, a population of animals must have their behavior, life cycle, or physiology systemically altered as a result of being under human control for many generations. Animals included in this list that do not fully meet this criterion are designated "captive-bred" or "semi-domesticated".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_animals

 

[sugarbush]

whether we do the selective breading or mother nature does, makes no odds. I don't control the bees i manipulate them to work for me not against me. When the bees swarm on my command maybe then you can call them domestic, but if they leave of their own free will to live in a tree does that still mean their domestic?

Then is a feral house cat not still a domestic cat?

 

[Winker]

Then is a feral house cat not still a domestic cat?

Cats and women come and go as they please, you deside!

 

[victor meldrew]

Startle a dog when it's fast asleep rather than just napping .,
For a few seconds it acts like a wild wolf .
Domesticated for as long as or maybe even longer than the honeybee and been modified to include the Chihuahua as well as the great Dane but still it's ancestry shines through
VM

 

[The Cumbrian]

Then is a feral house cat not still a domestic cat?

Feral: In a wild state after escape from captivity or domestication. So I would say no it is a feral cat not a domestic cat.

Are bees domesticated? Again I would say no using the definition "tame to live with humans". If they were domesticated surely we wouldn't need to worry about what the neighbours would say after a swarm or being stung by any insect which they think might be a bee.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Another about domestication.

Domestication (from Latin domesticus) is the process whereby a population of animals or plants, through a process of artificial selection, is changed at the genetic level, accentuating traits desired by humans. It differs from taming in that a change in the phenotypical expression and genotype of the animal occurs, where as taming is simply the process where animals become acclimatized to human presence. In the Convention on Biological Diversity a domesticated species is defined as a 'species in which the evolutionary process has been influenced by humans to meet their needs'.[1] Therefore, a defining characteristic of domestication is artificial selection by humans. Humans have brought these populations under their control and care for a wide range of reasons: to produce food or valuable commodities (such as wool, cotton, or silk), for help with various types of work (such as transportation, protection, and warfare), scientific research, or simply to enjoy as companions or ornaments.

 

[The Cumbrian]

I am not sure Hivemaker if that means you consider them domesticated or not.

As an aside is there any other domesticated animal where it is common to work with them wearing protective clothing, and I don't mean wellies to keep your feet dry or overalls to keep you clean. For that matter is there any other domesticated animal where it is common for some people working with the "stock" habitually use a system to help subdue them (smoke in the case of the bee).

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am not sure Hivemaker if that means you consider them domesticated or not.

I did not write it Cumbrian,it comes from the links, where they are classed as a domesticated if in our care.

It differs from taming in that a change in the phenotypical expression and genotype of the animal occurs, where as taming is simply the process where animals become acclimatized to human presence.


Cows are classed as domesticated,but if in you or your nieghbours were in a field when they have small calves, some of them would do there level best to kill you.

 

[sugarbush]

For that matter is there any other domesticated animal where it is common for some people working with the "stock" habitually use a system to help subdue them (smoke in the case of the bee).

Ever use a bull ring? quite effective at making a bull go where you want it to without killing you.

I used to raise hogs and I never get into a pen with a boar or a sow with piglets, the hogs are moved into a pen you don't need to work in before you enter the one you do.

cattle prods come to mind as another method to subdue a domestic animal and protect the handler.

Bull whips...

Lassos...

 

[The Cumbrian]

I did not write it Cumbrian,it comes from the links, where they are classed as a domesticated if in our care.
Cows are classed as domesticated,but if in you or your nieghbours were in a field when they have small calves, some of them would do there level best to kill you.

I knew you didn't write it but I was unsure of your opinion. I worked suckler cows long enough to know what they can be like when with a new born.

 

[Winker]

Ever use a bull ring? quite effective at making a bull go where you want it to without killing you.

I used to raise hogs and I never get into a pen with a boar or a sow with piglets, the hogs are moved into a pen you don't need to work in before you enter the one you do.

cattle prods come to mind as another method to subdue a domestic animal and protect the handler.

Bull whips...

Lassos...

Is the Tiger in the Zoo then domestic?

 

[sugarbush]

Is the Tiger in the Zoo then domestic?

No... but unlike the honey bee, the tiger has not been breed for 3000 years to produce large crops of honey, to not be runny on the comb, to swarm as little as possible.

Re-read the definition of domestic hivemaker posted. Paying particular attention to this section

the process whereby a population of animals or plants, through a process of artificial selection, is changed at the genetic level, accentuating traits desired by humans.

 

[Winker]

No... but unlike the honey bee, the tiger has not been breed for 3000 years to produce large crops of honey, to not be runny on the comb, to swarm as little as possible.

Re-read the definition of domestic hivemaker posted. Paying particular attention to this section

If my bees swarm and deside to live else where, the Beekeeper who catches the swarm gets to keep them. If they were domsic, i would be able to claim them back, as i would be able to if it were a horse/cow/dog/cat/pig/etc