Apis mellifera mellifera frame size

[stramorebees]

Hi all

I have 2 nucs i'm over wintering that contain the AMM strain of bee.
I had bought some 14x12 fames during the summer & was wondering if anyone
used the larger frames with this breed. I know this strain isn't as prolific as other
imported breeds & want to give them the best conditions for the spring.

Thanks for your time

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi all

I have 2 nucs i'm over wintering that contain the AMM strain of bee.
I had bought some 14x12 fames during the summer & was wondering if anyone
used the larger frames with this breed. I know this strain isn't as prolific as other
imported breeds & want to give them the best conditions for the spring.

Thanks for your time

location, weather, temperature and forage available also play a part , they will fill the box but it may be with stores not brood

 

[Poly Hive]

Conventional thinking is that a national brood is big enough but I found many AMM colonies needed a bit more. Some actually need a lot more, I knew a chap who had 100 Glens on brood and a half with AMM. That's 15 national brood frames plus 15 super frames. So your bigger box may well suit them.

PH

 

[Finman]

.
How earger your AMM is to swarm?

If the colony has one full box of bees after winter, how sure it is to swarm?

I it eargerer than Carniolans?

I had black devil mongrels 25 years ago, - last time.

 

[jakethedog]

....I found many AMM colonies needed a bit more. Some actually need a lot more...... So your bigger box may well suit them.

PH

As if PH's personal experience isn't enough there's an interesting chapter in Willie Robson's recent book which talks of a visit by Manley and Gale to see W.W.Smith and his double box black bees -which Manley later told Robson were the most powerful colonies of bees he'd ever seen.

Don't have exact quotes etc as the book is at home and I'm not.

 

[RoofTops]

I suspect there is no such thing as a pure AMM strain. There are bees which may be like or even quite close to AMMs but their genetic makeup is pretty variable I would think - between the different strains. In which case, what works for one type of AMM, won't work for another.

 

[bee ginnner]

i have worked with a few hives of AMM (yes i know they aren't 100% amm. calm down.) and some of them were on double brood

 

[bee ginnner]

I suspect there is no such thing as a pure AMM strain.

i would imagine that there are very few if any pure strains anywhere

 

[Poly Hive]

I would fully agree wwith you Rooftops for your neck of the woods and mine for that matter but in the far north, and for some there is more to this land than Watford Gap.. I would expect in Caithness, Sutherland and Ross-Shire there are indeed some pure lines.

PH

 

[Jimbo]

I would argree with you Polyhive I have surveyed samples from the Scottish islands eg Colonsay, Mull and Orkney using DrawWing morphometry. All are showing up as high Amm. (85% - 98%) There are also some Amm colonies in Ross-shire and Cathness. All the above areas are still varroa free as far as we know. There are Amm colonies in the central belt of Scotland although there are a lot of hybridised colonies. These areas do have varroa. Samples were also sent for DNA analysis to confirm our morphometry results and we are still waiting on the results

 

[Jimbo]

To answer the original question the native Amm can be quite prolific given good conditions. Some people keep them in double brood or one and a half brood. I tend to keep them in single brood (nationals) but then I am interested in bee breeding and improving the strain and not in honey production although some years the honey yields have also been OK

 

[Midland Beek]

I had bought some 14x12 fames during the summer & was wondering if anyone
used the larger frames with this breed.

Do not worry about 14x12 being too large. Good choice of frame size, that.

 

[Bob Bee]

Hi all

I have 2 nucs i'm over wintering that contain the AMM strain of bee.
I had bought some 14x12 fames during the summer & was wondering if anyone
used the larger frames with this breed. I know this strain isn't as prolific as other
imported breeds & want to give them the best conditions for the spring.

Thanks for your time

I shall certainly be working with both standard nationals and 14x12s predominantly with AMM (I've just started calling them 'dark bees' in public to avoid all the repetitive discussion about breeds )

 

[Teemore]

Stramore bees - are you down in Monaghan or outside Gilford Co. Down?

14x12 should be fine - I am planning to trial a couple of colonies of dark bees in 14x12 poly in 2012. I know a couple of beekeepers in the South who have to run brood and a half with their black bees and one of those chaps provides Michael Mac Giola Coda with breeding stock (for Drone production colonies). With the poly hives all bees will take advantage of the increased insulation and the queen will lay up a bigger brood nest.

One of my Queens is the daughter of a black Queen and the workers in that colony are black - only a very small proportion display a single coloured abdominal band. They have been worked without smoke all year and their temperament is good. They maintained a brood nest across all 10 frames in a Modern Beekeeping national poly bee box and would have progressed up into a second brood box if I hadn't been working the brood nest and moving frames of brood across into nucs.

 

[RoofTops]

I would expect in Caithness, Sutherland and Ross-Shire there are indeed some pure lines.
PH

But are they the same line? Which was the point I was trying to make, although I didn't explain myself very well. Jimbo's DNA results should answer the question I think when the results are available.

 

[Poly Hive]

I would expect so, though with the imports in the 50's maybe not. Only one way to find out and that is down to them what live there.

PH

 

[stramorebees]

Thanks to all repliers

I live in Co Monaghan, which is just south of the Northern Ireland border. I think I'll try them on the 14x12s and see how I get on. Thanks to all for your advice.