Another witch burning

[Mint Bee]

It seems to me that your observation is from a single point of view, which is coloured by your understanding, you see the 'world' in the context of theories you already hold. Scientific theory should make predictions that can be tested, and the theory rejected if those predictions are shown not to be correct. Interestingly no matter how many observations are made which seemingly confirm a theory there is always the possibility that a future observation could refute it.

I'm afraid you are waiting your time with this logical approach. Already been tried with BN, who says it* works, but cant bothered to publish any methods and results. He expects everyone to believe him because he says it is so. Oh, and he knows far more about most scientific theories than anyone else on the forum.

In my local there is a guy nicknamed eleven, because if you've been to Tenerife, hes been to Elvenerife......

* place specific thread topic here

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There comes a time when you just have to stop feeding it.

 

[Murox]

If I breed genetically similar bees in uniform conditions, most of any minor variations that occur in them should be due to genetic differences. The environmental variation is almost nil and the heritability ratio is high. If I bred the same bees in variable conditions most variations should be due to the environmental differences; the heritability ratio is low. So it is only possible to talk about heritability in bees bred under particular conditions.......maybe.

 

[Beesnaturally]

If I breed genetically similar bees in uniform conditions, most of any minor variations that occur in them should be due to genetic differences.

First, we should say that will take an ability to drive your genes through the drone side. 'Intruding' drones that are genetically different will tend to prevent that.

Given that you can control drone input and run hives in identical ways it will be, as you say, be the genetic throw of the dice that will account for most differences

The environmental variation is almost nil and the heritability ratio is high.

I think what you might be trying to convey is that genetically similar bees tend to have high heritability, and thus, given selective control, produce fairly stable and even populations?

If I bred the same bees in variable conditions most variations should be due to the environmental differences; the heritability ratio is low. So it is only possible to talk about heritability in bees bred under particular conditions.......maybe.

The heritability aspect will remain the same, but the environmental conditions will make a difference.

This is the familiar nature/nurture divide you come across in discussions. 'Nature' is the unique genotype you inherit. 'Nurture is all the stuff that shapes you apart from that.

Are we on the same page thus far?

 

[Beesnaturally]

There comes a time when you just have to stop feeding it.

Please do take your own advice. But don't try to interfere in others' conversational choices.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I'm afraid you are waiting your time with this logical approach. Already been tried with BN, who says it* works, but cant bothered to publish any methods and results. He expects everyone to believe him because he says it is so. Oh, and he knows far more about most scientific theories than anyone else on the forum.

You misunderstand. What I try to do is have conversations about the known mechanisms that tend to produce bees well-fitted to their environment. That is, healthy and productive bees.

You seem unaware of these mechanisms, or the understanding that lies beneath them. And you seem reluctant to find out about them, or ask me to explain them to you.

Because of this when I say things like 'systematic medication against varroa suppresses the natural rapid evolution toward resistance' you ask for evidence.

That doesn't need evidence. Its an application of evolutionary understanding to the honeybee. You won't get studies of it because it is fore-known. It couldn't be otherwise.

I do understand that you need some background, some specialised education, to understand why that is so. And without that it is logical that you be sceptical.

But I can't do that for you. You have to be curious enough to study it.

 

[BugsInABox]

This level is so simple that uneducated illiterates and village idiots can do it.

Only if they have this.

I have quite a few hives in a modest area, and there a few other beekeepers nearby.

Almost none of us here do. Where in Kent are you?

 

[Murox]

First, we should say that will take an ability to drive your genes through the drone side. 'Intruding' drones that are genetically different will tend to prevent that.
Given that you can control drone input and run hives in identical ways it will be, as you say, be the genetic throw of the dice that will account for most differences
I think what you might be trying to convey is that genetically similar bees tend to have high heritability, and thus, given selective control, produce fairly stable and even populations?
The heritability aspect will remain the same, but the environmental conditions will make a difference.
This is the familiar nature/nurture divide you come across in discussions. 'Nature' is the unique genotype you inherit. 'Nurture is all the stuff that shapes you apart from that.
Are we on the same page thus far?

No not really. I dislike your condescending tone and the way you slyly twist my words. I’m done here.
Feel free to have the last word. I’m sure you’re going to anyway.

 

[Beesnaturally]

No not really. I dislike your condescending tone and the way you slyly twist my words. I’m done here.
Feel free to have the last word. I’m sure you’re going to anyway.

How strange. I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm trying to find out what understanding we share so we can continue on the basis of agreed precepts.

Not to worry.