Angry black bees

[Ginger19]

This is my first year and boy has it been interesting - I caught a swarm of black looking bees in June. They have built up nicely, put a super on a month ago when up to 7 frames. Had no trouble inspecting until last time. Only wanted to look in the super, so didn't smoke prior to inspection - they were not happy. Was similar last time 7-10 days previous but this time they were stinging through the suit - had a quick look in the super (whilst monitoring my sphincter) and not much going in to be honest 2 frames of uncapped. Presumably the brood box is filling and I will smoke and have a good look this weekend.

Here is my main concern, I can NOT for the life of me find the queen, never have seen her since capture of swarm, she does exist hence the brood and eggs on every inspection. Have been through them with another beek and no joy either. These black bees really do all look the same, anyone else been here?

My limited knowledge would suggest black bees are wild? And possibly better off being wild?

Whilst I realise my ramblings are typical of a Friday night after 5 cans of ale, I would really appreciate any comments or useful information

 

[Tom Bick]

To me it could be down to the time of year and lack of smoke. Or your swarm was a cast and the new queens brood is becoming dominant and the temperament is changing?

Sometimes even the most calm of bees can have a grumpy day and the novice does not always notice this and a bad situation can easily escalate. Go back and this time smoke the hive and give the smoke a good 3mins before opening the hive.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Here is my main concern, I can NOT for the life of me find the queen, never have seen her since capture of swarm, she does exist hence the brood and eggs on every inspection.

If you're satisfied that she's laying, why do you need to see the queen? Do you want to replace her?

You're more likely to find her when colony numbers are lower than now.

 

[Queens59]

If you see eggs, larvae etc., you know there is a queen in there somewhere...so you are OK. While it is nice and reassuring to see HM - it isn't vital. I have a hive I haven't seen a queen in all season - but she is there and the bees are not worried. If you REALLY want to see her, wait until next Spring - first good day, go through. far less bees, more docile (hopefully) and best attempt.

Bees do get very possessive and protective at this time of year - so do not worry too much.

 

[Arfermo]

If you fiddle with bees between midday and 2pm or so most foragers will be out, therefore less bees to get excited. You got stung - do you always put on a double layer top and bottom? If not, expect the worst.

 

[Ginger19]

I am new to beekeeping so would sooner find her and mark her.
My first thought after the last attack was "how would I requeen when she can't be seen" however I am not fussed about rushing anything. Will follow the advice of Tom and see how it goes with smoke and patience.
Would be interested to hear from anyone that has experience of Black bees, is the size of the queen noticeably different - like a "normal" queen?

 

[Martin Pamplin]

I also have black bees. I saw HM in spring when they were lovely and docile (and I couldn't find my marker) but I haven't seen her since, BIAS so I know she's there. In the last month they have started following after I inspect, should I be concerned or is it just the season?

 

[Hivemaker.]

should I be concerned or is it just the season?

No it is the bees, not the season.

 

[MuswellMetro]

To me it could be down to the time of year and lack of smoke. Or your swarm was a cast and the new queens brood is becoming dominant and the temperament is changing?

Sometimes even the most calm of bees can have a grumpy day and the novice does not always notice this and a bad situation can easily escalate. Go back and this time smoke the hive and give the smoke a good 3mins before opening the hive.

smoke them down not up, loosen the crown board, lift slightly and smoke under , leave a few minutes, lift and smoke again, inspect

 

[Norton]

Get dressed up like an astronaut.

 

[Tom Bick]

smoke them down not up, loosen the crown board, lift slightly and smoke under , leave a few minutes, lift and smoke again, inspect

No problem with that MM but to me a bit of smoke at the entrance distracts the guard bees. I think we both agree to give the smoke time to work especially on grumpy bees its a great tool when used right.

I am fortunate that most of my bees are good natured but at this time of year things can change and understandable to

 

[Suzi Q]

smoke them down not up, loosen the crown board, lift slightly and smoke under , leave a few minutes, lift and smoke again, inspect

Or if they were on brood+half smoke them up not down. I have a little brown queen, she looks no different to thousands of other bees, the only way I can see her is by her different behaviour, and if smoked from underneath the OMF she will go up into the half part. She's for the chop soon anyway, I have had enough of being scared of the hive, although they produced the most honey this year.

 

[Black Comb]

Sound like some of mine.
If you are being stung through the suit, wear another layer underneath. Also, put your suit trouser legs outside of your wellies to ensure they can not crawl down and sting your ankles.
Are you sure they have enough food? For the past 2 weeks nothing has come in here and when I opened up some colonies yesterday they were down to the last of their food stores.
Remember, the forage situation in these parts is a lot less than many posters experience on here.

I wold leave until the spring before you try and find the queen. No need now and they will be quiter then (plus less bees).

 

[enrico]

I am afraid that finding queens is really one of this things that comes with experience, there are little things you can do to help, a frame that is part laid eggs, a frame where the bees are quieter are pointers, when I check a frame I scan quickly for the queen twice on each side, she tends to duck through holes and run to the other side, the quicker you are looking for her the less likely she will have made a run for it! Then I check for brood, eggs etc. if you really need to find her lift the brood box to another location and put a new brood box on the old site, as you inspect all the fliers will return to the old site leaving less bees for you to go through , after you have finished you inspection put the new box on top of a bee escape board on top of the hive so that it is ready for next time. It means a lot of weighty carrying and faffing around but it does work in those times when the queen HAS to be found!
As for stings, follow all the previous advice, hot is better than being stung, make sure you are bomb proof and your confidence will go up in leaps and bounds, I have black bees, the queens can be very very dark although I do tend to find they are large beasts! Keep at it and don't be afraid to ask for help, some people seem to have a natural ability to home in on the queen, luckily I don't find it too difficult now but it has taken thirty years!!

 

[Ginger19]

Some great advice from everyone there.

I will check the stores situation tomorrow. To be honest I have not seen this hive bring in anything for a while, however my others are still bombing away with blue (willow herb) and pale yellow pollen (?)

See how it goes tomorrow - have always wanted to be an astronaut!