Amm

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Shout? I doubt you would hear me even if I did.

Having an acute and increasing hearing impairment, probably not.
Your constant bullying of anyone enthusiastic about native bees, backed by others of the same bent is becoming tiresome and sickening. Not to mention your recent statement that racism is 'not a bad thing'
Time the mods tidied up this hijacked thread.
In the end, it is in the beginners section, and uncalled for.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Time the mods tidied up this hijacked thread.

I will later, only popped home for a cup of tea now, too busy with the bees until this evening.

 

[Beefriendly]

Depends what you call Amm, it's certainly the biggest influence in the background drone population and most "local mongrels" as you'd have it are over 80% Amm DNA in areas not flooded with constant imports = the majority of Wales.

This is what I consider as hearsay. A statement made to sound factual but no evidence to back it up. To me it's dubious that a bee with 1/5th of it's DNA from imported strains would be considered a separate strain. But that is splitting percentiles.

There was a study done on the subject (by Catherine Thomson iirc) and nation wide she proved all areas had an Amm majority constituents of DNA in their feral population , unfortunately I don't seem to recall much of her data was gathered in Wales. This is all from a presentation I heard years ago without taking notes so feel free to correct me or link to the original paper if it's out there. I'll have a Google myself.

I've included the graph from her figure 59 with the %Amm from the regions she studied in her PhD thesis below. If you would like a copy of the whole thesis PM with your e-mail address. It's overall conclusion was that no populations she studied were pure. As I recall she also spend time searching isolated forests, such as Ennerdale looking for any isolated pockets of the old Amm's, without success.
So it will be really good when someone in Wales comes out with the DNA studies that either confirm or refute yours (and others) suggestions that you are dealing with "pure Amm's".
Somehow I doubt it, but I am happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Swarm]

Quite simple: Amm enthusiasts (yourself included) seem to want to control the whole site. Every time someone disagrees with an exaggerated claim, they cry wolf.

This is quite untrue, it was Admin who created each separate forum, I was surprised to find threads about other bee types in a forum set out specifically for Amm, it says so on the heading.
This thread should maybe have been moved but would that stop the nay sayers? I doubt it.

 

[B+.]

This is quite untrue, it was Admin who created each separate forum, I was surprised to find threads about other bee types in a forum set out specifically for Amm, it says so on the heading.
This thread should maybe have been moved but would that stop the nay sayers? I doubt it.

I was talking about the exaggerated claims of Amms performance, not the Amm forum.
If BiBBA has its own forum, it would make sense if Amm enthusiasts used it. I have made a number of posts in that forum without reading the "small print".
The question remains, where are the rest of us to post comments/questions without Amm enthusiasts chipping in and spoiling the thread (as several of mine on carnica have been).

 

[B+.]

Having an acute and increasing hearing impairment, probably not.
Your constant bullying of anyone enthusiastic about native bees, backed by others of the same bent is becoming tiresome and sickening. Not to mention your recent statement that racism is 'not a bad thing'
Time the mods tidied up this hijacked thread.
In the end, it is in the beginners section, and uncalled for.

I see it differently. I see it as standing up AGAINST the Amm bullies who would drown out any views contrary to their own
As for the rest of your post, it is quite clear that I was referring to bee races (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=665109&postcount=95 )

 

[Swarm]

B+
You keep mentioning small print but it is clear enough for anyone to read as HM has already said. Quite frankly, it is pretty difficult to overlook unless the person deliberately chooses to do so. If you think it is unfair then it is a matter for you to take up with Admin, same applies to anyone else with a similar view.

If a beginner or anyone else should post referring to Amm in any other place that can only be remedied by moderation, the blame does not lie with supporters of Amm.

Negative comments you receive have come from various sources so I think you are being rather unfair to level blame at only one.

 

[B+.]

B+
You keep mentioning small print but it is clear enough for anyone to read as HM has already said. Quite frankly, it is pretty difficult to overlook unless the person deliberately chooses to do so. If you think it is unfair then it is a matter for you to take up with Admin, same applies to anyone else with a similar view.

If a beginner or anyone else should post referring to Amm in any other place that can only be remedied by moderation, the blame does not lie with supporters of Amm.

Negative comments you receive have come from various sources so I think you are being rather unfair to level blame at only one.

I said "small print" because it is smaller than the title "Bee Improvement and Bee Breeding". If it had said BIBBA, I (and others) would have been clear that it was an Amm-only area. Of course, that doesn't prevent other people from commenting but, it does make it clear that Amm should be the main topic of conversation. I know, I made some comments about VSH which were definitely not based on Amm but on my own experience with carnica.
I assume that BIBBA folk were given their own forum in order to head-off some of the unpleasantness we have seen. So, it does make sense for Amm advocates to use it.
I have no issue with Amm (or any other race of bee) but I do have an issue with some of the unsupported / unrealistic claims people make.

 

[Repwoc]

If you would like a copy of the whole thesis

It's available to download here: http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/5211/

 

[For want of a better word]

It's available to download here: http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/5211/

Now a bit out of date all be it a very small snapshot of available samples which only represented a very small percentage of the UK Amm population.
I do not believe any samples were analysed from Cornwall or Devon where later and ongoing ( unpublished data***) proves a cohort of pure Amm in some areas... with specific markers for Cornish variants.

All academic... but I can here the nay sayers already doing a Thatcher winger of " wheres proof***"

.... Oh dear Oh deary me... I will now get a host of complaints of telling it how it is!!

 

[Poly Hive]

This thread should not be in the beginner's section.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This thread should not be in the beginner's section.

PH

seems the ethos of this section can be dismissed/ignored by some

 

[For want of a better word]

This thread should not be in the beginner's section.

PH

Forum needs a room 101 !!

 

[Anduril]

This thread should not be in the beginner's section.

PH

It was in the correct section, a place where a beginner shouldn't feel intimidated, where the respondents should be respectful.

 

[enrico]

It was in the correct section, a place where a beginner shouldn't feel intimidated, where the respondents should be respectful.

Agreed, the question was in the right place, it was the person's putting in the answers that should have considered if they were suitable answers for the begginers section!