Amm

[B+.]

As I previously stated... not a topic for the beginners section.

Perhaps this will help

 

[Beefriendly]

Forage... location... weather....

Yeah I know, my back garden is not the best apiary site in the world....but for the comparisons it was important I only compared hives that remained in the same apiary for those seasons.

 

[SDM]

No there wasn't but you mixed your buckfast and Amm averages in your sarcastic PM so I only had your 'best' to compare with. You said none of your Amm managed 100 lbs, only my non production colonies brought in less than that, maybe you don't have the forage.
I can't understand why you would imagine that Amm should out perform highly bred bees with decades of work behind them, I certainly don't.

Wow , you think that pm was sarcastic , what a delicate soul you musr be. Feel free to post it for others to consider. What i didnt mention is that my blacks are from sources tested as pure Amm and as others hace said i can only assume that the entire focus of the last few decades has been on purity and tolerable temperament.
I would expect that 50+ years of BIBBA( and others) breeding groups could surely have produced a bee by now that is capable of competing with f1 imports from all sorts of allegedly incompatible climates and run by a relative novice of a beekeeper, who is running apiaries in a poor area for honey( if local beekeeper averages are any guide) with hive densities i imagine far more competitive than most rural areas( 1500 hives within 20 miles). Frankky i couldn't imagine why you wouldnt expect to hugely out produce me, until you made it clear you find bees producing excess honey inconvenient.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yeah I know, my back garden is not the best apiary site in the world....but for the comparisons it was important I only compared hives that remained in the same apiary for those seasons.

Bet the best producers regardless of race were located on the intersection of ley lines... did you check them?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Amm discussion always seems to become bogged down in argument. Maybe there ought to be a separate section devoted entirely to amm, similar to the political cupboard under the stairs and.where the arguments and trolling can go on to the protagonists hearts content?

 

[For want of a better word]

Amm discussion always seems to become bogged down in argument. Maybe there ought to be a separate section devoted entirely to amm, similar to the political cupboard under the stairs and.where the arguments and trolling can go on to the protagonists hearts content?

And then another under the stairs cupboard for Buckfast fanciers, Carnolian lovers, and the "We want imported bees brigade"
Not to forget the solid floor and the anti polly lot... and the.......


Beekeepers will always argue that what they are doing is the best or even the only way and seem to take some delight in telling every one their views on any subject......


Yeghes da

 

[Curly green fingers]

Mark, you should try and compare different strains in the same apiary, it will open your eyes.
Or read "The spirit of the Hive" by Robert Page...it's a bit dry and turgid...but essentially within a strain you can select heritable lines for high or low pollen gatherers....and it turns out that high pollen gatherer's are crap honey producers and vice versa. So selectability for honey production is a genetic trait that you can breed for. It's not that Amm's don't have the potential to produce large amounts of honey, they just currently haven't been selected for this trait. Most of the controlled breeding where DNA analysis has been used to identify them as Amm's has mainly been for purity as opposed to honey gathering prowess.
Although the evidence coming for Ireland where there seems to be high proportion of pureish Amm's, suggests they are still not honey monsters...nor good tempered.

I plan to this year bucks and Amm bee's in the same apiary they will both be on the farm for the osr field beans and cider orchards .
The buckfast were from bs honey last year.

 

[SDM]

Amm discussion always seems to become bogged down in argument. Maybe there ought to be a separate section devoted entirely to amm, similar to the political cupboard under the stairs and.where the arguments and trolling can go on to the protagonists hearts content?

Thats why i asked the questions i had by PM as they werent really relevant to the thread, just for personal interest. "Argument " is a rather strange way of looking at asking questions for the purpose of comparison. Who could have known that those extolling the virtues of their chosen bee would be so sensitive to a private question.

 

[Stiffy]

I think they are both capable of producing lots of honey but wonder if they were both completely 100%pure which one's would be better and this has more to do with other factors than just honey production.
Honey bees which ever species' shouldn't be kept just for there honey production alone.
I've got my hat on and the summit is calling then on to planting seeds...

Cant say about black bees and I have no wish to feed the Trolls.
However, you will never get a 100% pure bred Buckfast as they are continually being improved with the traits BA started. BTW as I keep reminding, there is one species of honey in this country Apis Melifera, beekeepers keep sub species or strains
S

 

[Stiffy]

Amm discussion always seems to become bogged down in argument. Maybe there ought to be a separate section devoted entirely to amm, similar to the political cupboard under the stairs and.where the arguments and trolling can go on to the protagonists hearts content?

Hear, hear please have a separate sub section for AMM, so the rest of us are not drawn into the silliness. And yes, I hold my hand up to getting drawn in .
S

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hear, hear please have a separate sub section for AMM, so the rest of us are not drawn into the silliness. And yes, I hold my hand up to getting drawn in .
S

Had one for years.....

The forum to chat about improving and breeding Native British bee's,apis mellifera mellifera.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=38

 

[Stiffy]

Had one for years.....

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=38

So there is! I shall just have to stop ......................

 

[B+.]

Had one for years.....

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=38

The title "Bee Improvement and Bee Breeding" is a bit unclear. I do bee improvement work with carnica and assumed it was open to all. If it is only for Amm enthusiasts, that raises the question of dedicated areas for carnica, ligustica, Buckfast, etc. Where does it end?

 

[TooBee...]

... read "The spirit of the Hive" by Robert Page...
... evidence coming for Ireland where there seems to be high proportion of pureish Amm's, suggests they are still not honey monsters...nor good tempered.

Thanks for the Book recommendation

To be fair, there are good breeders of Amm's here in Ireland, but high honey yields (beyond 30 kilos) is very rare, and whenever claimed ... is privately doubted: Aggression is an issue, good bee handling is a MAJOR factor, but they seem to have a shorter fuse. BUT Galtee's bees have a very good reputation, mainly on placidness, remarkably so, although their 'placid' queens seems to be rather laid back throughout the season, and swarming is more of an issue - so I've been told.

Although as B+ said,

Is anyone keeping track of the background so closely related lines are not crossed?

I don't think so, many of the Amm breeders here are starting their apiaries of with the usual breeder(s).

This would be a concern that I would have for the Amm's on the Isle of Man; they have a Closed Population (imports are banned), and they have recently had BIBBA members going through their hives and culling any Queens that exhibited non-Amm physical characteristics, without regard to traits "racial purity" is the goal, as here in Ireland.

However, you will never get a 100% pure bred Buckfast as they are continually being improved with the traits BA started

Stiffy,
it is possible to get "100% pure bred Buckfast", (in much the same as B+ can get with carnica's) there is a Pedigree List of their Breeding Lines (going back to 1919), it is VERY difficult for non-Buckfast bees (new DNA) to be added to this recognized / pedigree population, but it can still occur, as with VSH.

 

[For want of a better word]

There should be a section for Hogwash... which most of this is!!!

 

[For want of a better word]

I plan to this year bucks and Amm bee's in the same apiary they will both be on the farm for the osr field beans and cider orchards .
The buckfast were from bs honey last year.

Very unwise
C group are notorious for becoming not nice to have if they get a bit of M group in their make up..... just do not try to breed anything!!!

 

[Curly green fingers]

I don't plan to mix the breed's don't try and teach me to suck egg's.
The only breeding I plan to do is all amms FYI....
With maybe a bit of carnica genus for good measure .

 

[For want of a better word]

I don't plan to mix the breed's don't try and teach me to suck egg's.
The only breeding I plan to do is all amms FYI....
With maybe a bit of carnica genus for good measure .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gACCCmFKP80

 

[Stiffy]

Thanks for the Book recommendation

To be fair, there are good breeders of Amm's here in Ireland, but high honey yields (beyond 30 kilos) is very rare, and whenever claimed ... is privately doubted: Aggression is an issue, good bee handling is a MAJOR factor, but they seem to have a shorter fuse. BUT Galtee's bees have a very good reputation, mainly on placidness, remarkably so, although their 'placid' queens seems to be rather laid back throughout the season, and swarming is more of an issue - so I've been told.

Although as B+ said,

I don't think so, many of the Amm breeders here are starting their apiaries of with the usual breeder(s).

This would be a concern that I would have for the Amm's on the Isle of Man; they have a Closed Population (imports are banned), and they have recently had BIBBA members going through their hives and culling any Queens that exhibited non-Amm physical characteristics, without regard to traits "racial purity" is the goal, as here in Ireland.



Stiffy,
it is possible to get "100% pure bred Buckfast", (in much the same as B+ can get with carnica's) there is a Pedigree List of their Breeding Lines (going back to 1919), it is VERY difficult for non-Buckfast bees (new DNA) to be added to this recognized / pedigree population, but it can still occur, as with VSH.

After trying them I can confirm that Galtee bees are okay and (mostly) quiet on the comb, not as good as my Buckies or anywhere near as productive.

I know that Buckfast are bred through a recognised pedigree system, I have many, many of them in my setup but they are always going to be a mix of strains, and although relatively rare nowadays, introductions are made to improve 'vigour' .
S

 

[Curly green fingers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gACCCmFKP80

nope !!!!