Amm

[Ian123]

If the OP has not yet run for the hills the best advice to give would be get out and try those offering various bee types. Maybe not always possible but am sure if she makes an effort and is looking to purchase, also normaly some of the local types at local association meetings. That could of course be enough to put many off

 

[B+.]

I've kept both in the same apiary.
There is a difference, one has been bred for honey gathering and another for purity.

In truth, there is a difference even within a race. That's why it is necessary to test and select before propagating.

 

[For want of a better word]

How can we compare when the Amm bee's have Italian and carnica gene's unless both buckfast and Amm are 100% pure.
I can't comment on honey crops from both I've not had them long enough.

Easier for beginners just to call them honey bees

I have both black bees and yellow bees and we are slowly unraveling their DNA... ( B4 group + UK and European Universities collaborative exercise)


Differentiation of the subtypes of Apis mellifera is way beyond the comprehension of most beekeepers..... and the scope of the Beginners section.

Let us leave it there.

 

[Curly green fingers]

I've kept both in the same apiary.
There is a difference, one has been bred for honey gathering and another for purity.

I think they are both capable of producing lots of honey but wonder if they were both completely 100%pure which one's would be better and this has more to do with other factors than just honey production.
Honey bees which ever species' shouldn't be kept just for there honey production alone.
I've got my hat on and the summit is calling then on to planting seeds...

 

[Curly green fingers]

Easier for beginners just to call them honey bees

I have both black bees and yellow bees and we are slowly unraveling their DNA... ( B4 group + UK and European Universities collaborative exercise)


Differentiation of the subtypes of Apis mellifera is way beyond the comprehension of most beekeepers..... and the scope of the Beginners section.

Let us leave it there.

Deffo!!

 

[rolande]

If it's any use my Buckfast average about 180lbs a year and have done for several years..

I've kept both in the same apiary.
There is a difference

What was the yearly average for the Amm?

 

[Poly Hive]

Depending on the season I took a ton from OSR, sometimes a bit of a crop mid season and another ton from the heather. Off between 50 to 70 stocks.

PH

 

[Repwoc]

2240 / 60 = 37.33

 

[Curly green fingers]

2240 / 60 = 37.33

37.33kgs as an average for 60 colony's?
Yep we're they single brood ? Colony's.
I'm hoping I've got enough supers for my 8 colony's bejesus!!!

 

[SDM]

I've received a PM asking what I consider a good harvest, with reference to last year and the wonderful time we beekeepers had.
My best last year (yes, an exceptional year) was 210lbs so that is 20lbs less than your buckfasts. This was after I split this colony in early June.
Very nice bees and daughter colony just the same.
Neither colony was fed for this Winter

I don't keep other bees so don't do comparisons but I can't help raising an eyebrow at some of the claims on this forum.
I can do without another year like last year to be honest, I'm still faffing about with the honey and I have a dear old couple down West who desperately want more comb honey this year.
I love my black bees

No mention of your averages for the last 5 years or last year ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

37.33kgs

Pounds... lbs.

 

[Curly green fingers]

Pounds... lbs.

1 and a half supers per hive ??

 

[Hivemaker.]

1 and a half supers per hive ??

Depends on the size of the supers.

 

[Curly green fingers]

Depends on the size of the supers.

True 30lbs + for a standard national.

 

[Hivemaker.]

True 30lbs + for a standard national.

...shallow, more for a standard national deep or for a commercial shallow or deep.

 

[Beefriendly]

What was the yearly average for the Amm?

I'd have to dig my old notes out for exact figures. Similar sized colonies on double brood where collecting roughly 1/2 the honey of the equivalent Buckfast. AS I recall it was something like 120lbs vs 60lbs. This happened two years running and the queens where nearly pure Amm's from the Galtree (?) NI Breeding programme.
Nice bees to work with and capping to die for, snow white they where. If I was into showing slabs of honey and winning rosettes at shows I would definitely invest in a few Amm queens... but I would be very wary of purchasing Amm queens from anyone who hasn't had their bees DNA tested...it's all too easy to say "these are Amm's".
If you make your money out of selling honey there are better bees available (not just Buckfast)....either that or buy twice the number of hives.

 

[Curly green fingers]

...shallow, more for a standard national deep or for a commercial shallow or deep.

Our best last year was 32lb in weight 10 frames .
I'll think I'll stay with the bs boxes

 

[Beefriendly]

I think they are both capable of producing lots of honey ..

Mark, you should try and compare different strains in the same apiary, it will open your eyes.
Or read "The spirit of the Hive" by Robert Page...it's a bit dry and turgid...but essentially within a strain you can select heritable lines for high or low pollen gatherers....and it turns out that high pollen gatherer's are crap honey producers and vice versa. So selectability for honey production is a genetic trait that you can breed for. It's not that Amm's don't have the potential to produce large amounts of honey, they just currently haven't been selected for this trait. Most of the controlled breeding where DNA analysis has been used to identify them as Amm's has mainly been for purity as opposed to honey gathering prowess.
Although the evidence coming for Ireland where there seems to be high proportion of pureish Amm's, suggests they are still not honey monsters...nor good tempered.

 

[For want of a better word]

I'd have to dig my old notes out for exact figures. Similar sized colonies on double brood where collecting roughly 1/2 the honey of the equivalent Buckfast. AS I recall it was something like 120lbs vs 60lbs. This happened two years running and the queens where nearly pure Amm's from the Galtree (?) NI Breeding programme.
Nice bees to work with and capping to die for, snow white they where. If I was into showing slabs of honey and winning rosettes at shows I would definitely invest in a few Amm queens... but I would be very wary of purchasing Amm queens from anyone who hasn't had their bees DNA tested...it's all too easy to say "these are Amm's".
If you make your money out of selling honey there are better bees available (not just Buckfast)....either that or buy twice the number of hives.

Forage... location... weather....

We have some sites that bring in tons of honey...... 10 miles away another apiary only half the amount...... putting more hives out makes little odds, although I suspect there may be forage competition in some areas.

There are some out there ( even BIBBA members) who could not recognise an Amm even if it stung them on the nose.... and even doubt the DNA evidence when it is presented and explained to them.

As I previously stated... not a topic for the beginners section.

 

[Swarm]

No mention of your averages for the last 5 years or last year ?

No there wasn't but you mixed your buckfast and Amm averages in your sarcastic PM so I only had your 'best' to compare with. You said none of your Amm managed 100 lbs, only my non production colonies brought in less than that, maybe you don't have the forage.
I can't understand why you would imagine that Amm should out perform highly bred bees with decades of work behind them, I certainly don't.