Aggressive bees

[Davidholmes]

I bought a nuc last summer from a big supplier and was aware they were a bit sparky as soon as I hived them but being inexperienced thought it was normal variation. They overwintered well but now I find them very difficult to handle. As soon as I open the hive they fly up off the frames and I am instantly covered with stinging bees - after an inspection yesterday there were 2-300 stings embedded in my gloves plus a few got through the leather. I have tried different levels of smoke and nothing seems to make much difference - they won't go down between the frames which makes it difficult to put the hive back together without crushing a few which doesn't help.
After closing up they follow me for at least half an hour,even if I walk 200 yards from the hive. I can go under some trees in the shade where they tend not to follow but even after ten minutes hiding they are waiting for me when I come out!
Other times a few bees will attack without warning when there is no disturbance and I am at some distance from the hive - they buzz around aggressively and then dive in sting first.
Although the queen was a 2016 they had produced about twelve queen cells with larvae by the end of April even though there was still plenty of room in the brood box. I used the Demaree method which seems to have worked well to prevent swarming but I was surprised how enthusiastically they were trying to swarm so early in the season with a young queen.
If I thought all bees were like this I would give up but I have now ordered a new queen which I hope will get things under control.
What I would like an opinion on is if it is reasonable to sell bees with such bad temperament or is this just a bit of bad luck and I have to get stuck in and sort them out. I mentioned it to the supplier in early April but have not formally complained as yet. They are getting worse as the colony builds up and it is now almost impossible to inspect them. I am not afraid of them but opening the hive is a very uncomfortable experience and I could do without wandering round the garden in a bee suit for half an hour after an inspection waiting for them to lose interest.
Should I complain or is this just part of the ups and downs of beekeeping?
Thanks in advance for any opinions.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I bought a nuc last summer from a big supplier and was aware they were a bit sparky as soon as I hived them but being inexperienced thought it was normal variation. They overwintered well but now I find them very difficult to handle. As soon as I open the hive they fly up off the frames and I am instantly covered with stinging bees - after an inspection yesterday there were 2-300 stings embedded in my gloves plus a few got through the leather. I have tried different levels of smoke and nothing seems to make much difference - they won't go down between the frames which makes it difficult to put the hive back together without crushing a few which doesn't help.
After closing up they follow me for at least half an hour,even if I walk 200 yards from the hive. I can go under some trees in the shade where they tend not to follow but even after ten minutes hiding they are waiting for me when I come out!
Other times a few bees will attack without warning when there is no disturbance and I am at some distance from the hive - they buzz around aggressively and then dive in sting first.
Although the queen was a 2016 they had produced about twelve queen cells with larvae by the end of April even though there was still plenty of room in the brood box. I used the Demaree method which seems to have worked well to prevent swarming but I was surprised how enthusiastically they were trying to swarm so early in the season with a young queen.
If I thought all bees were like this I would give up but I have now ordered a new queen which I hope will get things under control.
What I would like an opinion on is if it is reasonable to sell bees with such bad temperament or is this just a bit of bad luck and I have to get stuck in and sort them out. I mentioned it to the supplier in early April but have not formally complained as yet. They are getting worse as the colony builds up and it is now almost impossible to inspect them. I am not afraid of them but opening the hive is a very uncomfortable experience and I could do without wandering round the garden in a bee suit for half an hour after an inspection waiting for them to lose interest.
Should I complain or is this just part of the ups and downs of beekeeping?
Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Why do suppliers keep selling leather gloves as part of beginners kit?
I'll bet your gloves stink of sting pheromone to the bees and they are reacting to the pheromone instruction.
If you really really must use leather gloves put a pair of nitriles over them and report back.

 

[masimcox]

Hi
My wife and I started beekeeping last year, our first colony was as you describe yours. I remember one early morning, after a windy night, just having a quick look and a bee flew 15 yards from the hive and stung me above the eyebrow!

The hive were prolific and eventually swarmed and since then the hive has been much better, not perfectly calm like my other hive but acceptable.

Sorry can't be much help but we've been there and know the angst it can cause.

 

[B+.]

Should I complain or is this just part of the ups and downs of beekeeping?

Clearly, the bees are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended. Personally, I would squish the queen and break up the colony so they killed off their drones. However, this depends on you having good queens to put in the nuc(s).

 

[bjosephd]

This sounds pretty unacceptable if it is from a big mainstream company. If you went more off piste with your bee dealer then maybe buyer beware.

What 'breed' of bee did this supplier say they were providing you with.

Sounds horrible. This is not the joy of beekeeping. Even my 'slightly hot' hive is still enjoyable to inspect... especially if they stay relatively chilled... I feel that is an achievement with my beekeeping.

Your bees sound miserable. Sorry.

Find a reputable queen breeder and re-queen asap!

Or even squish that queen tomorrow and then select one of their emergency queen cells for them to raise. Sounds like the daughter can't really be much worse! And you might have some nice local drones. Prime mating season!

BUT I am sure one of the heavy weight beeks here can give you far better advice.

I'm still a newbee really.

Good luck. Sorry your first colony is so nasty! I really feel the vendor should deal with it though. In my opinion it is a faulty product!

 

[Swarm]

Do you know a beekeeper who could come and assess them for you? I would be suggesting you do that before the old chestnut of blaming leather gloves. You say they have always been a bit 'off'? As the colony gets bigger, so does the problem.
Find someone with the experience to help.

 

[Anduril]

Why do suppliers keep selling leather gloves as part of beginners kit?
I'll bet your gloves stink of sting pheromone to the bees and they are reacting to the pheromone instruction.
If you really really must use leather gloves put a pair of nitriles over them and report back.

When I'm dealing with these defensive bees, I have 5 queens to deal with at the moment. I put nitriles underneath the leather gloves and then nitriles over the top. This stops the leather getting covered in sweat, I find bees hate sweaty leather. The leather isn't attacked but the material for the sleeve is. I had 52 stings in that area on Saturday. The placid bees ignore the gloves. As an aside I've seen some beekeepers wearing bikers gloves. I haven't tried the gloves vets wear to cover the arm, they may stop the arms getting stung.

 

[For want of a better word]

Clearly, the bees are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended. Personally, I would squish the queen and break up the colony so they killed off their drones. However, this depends on you having good queens to put in the nuc(s).

Firstly find a supplier of locally bred queens... and ask to have a guided tour around his breeding colonies to judge for yourself their behavior. Then once nice queens are sourced you can do as B+ advises.
Silver lining is you can use the nasties to increase!

Yeghes da

 

[Anduril]

Firstly find a supplier of locally bred queens... and ask to have a guided tour around his breeding colonies to judge for yourself their behavior. Then once nice queens are sourced you can do as B+ advises.
Silver lining is you can use the nasties to increase!

Yeghes da

I disagree I have been around an apiary of defensive AMM unsuited no problem. Get suited and open up the hives and it was stings galore. I will use bees I feel are fit for purpose, I had an owner getting stung every time she mowed the lawn, changed to Buckfasts from a supplier that I am happy with and lawn mowing resumed in peace.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Where is the hive sited ?
Is it on it's own ?

Small colonies are normally nicer, the bigger they get the worse they get.

If you buy a queen set her up in a nuc and then unite.

 

[kevrhcfag]

I bought a nuc last summer from a big supplier and was aware they were a bit sparky as soon as I hived them but being inexperienced thought it was normal variation. They overwintered well but now I find them very difficult to handle. As soon as I open the hive they fly up off the frames and I am instantly covered with stinging bees - after an inspection yesterday there were 2-300 stings embedded in my gloves plus a few got through the leather. I have tried different levels of smoke and nothing seems to make much difference - they won't go down between the frames which makes it difficult to put the hive back together without crushing a few which doesn't help.
After closing up they follow me for at least half an hour,even if I walk 200 yards from the hive. I can go under some trees in the shade where they tend not to follow but even after ten minutes hiding they are waiting for me when I come out!
Other times a few bees will attack without warning when there is no disturbance and I am at some distance from the hive - they buzz around aggressively and then dive in sting first.
Although the queen was a 2016 they had produced about twelve queen cells with larvae by the end of April even though there was still plenty of room in the brood box. I used the Demaree method which seems to have worked well to prevent swarming but I was surprised how enthusiastically they were trying to swarm so early in the season with a young queen.
If I thought all bees were like this I would give up but I have now ordered a new queen which I hope will get things under control.
What I would like an opinion on is if it is reasonable to sell bees with such bad temperament or is this just a bit of bad luck and I have to get stuck in and sort them out. I mentioned it to the supplier in early April but have not formally complained as yet. They are getting worse as the colony builds up and it is now almost impossible to inspect them. I am not afraid of them but opening the hive is a very uncomfortable experience and I could do without wandering round the garden in a bee suit for half an hour after an inspection waiting for them to lose interest.
Should I complain or is this just part of the ups and downs of beekeeping?
Thanks in advance for any opinions.

If bees are aggressive as a nuc barring the obvious exceptions of weather etc. (even then not really acceptable) you can bet your life that they will be a lot worse when the hive is big and strong and feeling the full weight of itself.

Sometimes it cant be helped, sometimes (quite a lot) people just sell what they have or caught regardless.

Its not hobby beekeeping or remotely fun and certainly not a set of bees for a garden hive. A hose pipe is a handy thing. Need to be requeened but it can be tricky with an aggressive hive, maybe make up a nuc and then combine. You can reduce the bees by giving foundation and restricting queen to that box and keep swapping out while other gets ready.

 

[Davelin]

Are you a member of our local branch? If not suggest you join, if you already are get in touch with one of us and someone can come and take a look at your colony and assess it and give you advice?
Where in N Soms are you ?

 

[drex]

I agree. Get an experienced beek to have a look with you. Make sure your kit is clean and leather gloves covered with nitrile. Try to be gentle in your handling. Sometimes they respond to spraying with water or very light syrup, rather than smoke.
I would not tolerate such bees and the queen would be squished immediately.
Requeening a nasty hive is not easy nor pleasant. Finding her can be a nightmare. I suggest you move the brood boxes well away from original site, where you leave the supers. Leave for a few hours a for flyers to leave the brood and return to supers. That way the brood boxes are depopulated of most of the aggressors

 

[Davidholmes]

Thanks for the comments

I only have the one hive and it is in a sheltered spot so I don't think weather is an issue. I accept the comment about leather gloves and I have already washed my gloves to try and remove the pheromones but I am thinking chain mail might be better than nitrile :-(. I certainly wouldn't be confident to try without leather unless things improved dramatically.
My bees are Carniolian but I have ordered a Buckfast home bred queen from a reputable breeder who assures me he breeds for good temperament. My current plan is not to open the hive again until the time comes to squish the queen. She is marked and I have never had a problem finding her. Since the Demaree split the lower brood box only has about five frames currently occupied so it easier at the moment. I hope the new queen arrives before the old one fills the box though. I think I will contact the suppliers of the nuc and have a moan as I have been told recently that they often buy nucs in rather than make up their own so don't really know what they are selling!

 

[Anduril]

Big T are selling vented gloves, they would give you 4mm of protection on the back of the hand and sides and also keep your hands cool. If they are anything like the vented suits you can buy, you won't overheat.

 

[kevrhcfag]

I only have the one hive and it is in a sheltered spot so I don't think weather is an issue. I accept the comment about leather gloves and I have already washed my gloves to try and remove the pheromones but I am thinking chain mail might be better than nitrile :-(. I certainly wouldn't be confident to try without leather unless things improved dramatically.
My bees are Carniolian but I have ordered a Buckfast home bred queen from a reputable breeder who assures me he breeds for good temperament. My current plan is not to open the hive again until the time comes to squish the queen. She is marked and I have never had a problem finding her. Since the Demaree split the lower brood box only has about five frames currently occupied so it easier at the moment. I hope the new queen arrives before the old one fills the box though. I think I will contact the suppliers of the nuc and have a moan as I have been told recently that they often buy nucs in rather than make up their own so don't really know what they are selling!

HM's are good and not that far away from you.

Just take comb off her and give them foundation