After some sympathy

[enrico]

Bad day, had a gut feeling about two hives all winter. Reduced down to four hives in the autumn.
Sadly I was right. A handful of bees dead on both omf boards and the hives still packed with food.
50 percent losses. Haven't had a winter like that for thirty years. My guess is not enough winter bees.

 

[user 819]

Intuition had already laid the seed so at least you weren't completely caught off guard Eric, sometimes we just have that inkling.
Obviously now one can look back and assess the Q was not up to the task in producing enough bees .

 

[Murox]

Thats a big hit; sadly your intuition was right. Perhaps its an opportunity in disguise.

 

[pargyle]

That's sad Eric ... but there are a lot of winter losses being reported where there are lots of stores left in the hive and hardly any bees left ... it does indicate that there is an issue. Roger Patterson has been talking about premature queen failure for years and seems to get shot down with 'it's Varroa' or 'poor beekeeping practice'.

I think there is an issue with some queens ... and their ability to lay up sufficient bees going into winter - I can't prove anything but you've been keeping bees long enough to know what you are doing and you treat for varroa so there has to be something beyond that is causing losses.

No doubt someone will be along to say it's not a national problem and we are seeing only what has been un-noticed in the past ... but .. it does seem there are more unexplained losses these days.

 

[Amari]

Bad day, had a gut feeling about two hives all winter. Reduced down to four hives in the autumn.
Sadly I was right. A handful of bees dead on both omf boards and the hives still packed with food.
50 percent losses. Haven't had a winter like that for thirty years. My guess is not enough winter bees.

There have been a few similar recent posts including one of mine = plenty of stores + big pile of bees on OMF cf. yours = stores + handful of bees. Presumably differing pathologies?

 

[JamezF]

I'm a bit apprehensive about a couple of my colonies too. Last year was a very strange year for beekeeping here and I believe I had several late supercedures when the weather really seemed too poor to give the virgin queens a good chance to mate.

James

 

[enrico]

The mildly interesting thing is that all the hives were losing weight at the same rate until mid December when the two dead outs stayed constant indicating they went in the same fortnight. Funny how losing hives still affects you. I lose so few that two in one winter was a bit of a kick in the teeth. I reduced numbers thinking this was due to be a bad swarm year so 6 to 4 and now down to 2! The good thing is the remaining two are both daughters of my best ever queen so expansion should be a pleasant experience.
On a totally different subject I like the op banner on the authors avatar

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there are a lot of winter losses being reported where there are lots of stores left in the hive and hardly any bees left .

isolated reports you mean, and it looks like it's the same associations bemoaning it as last season which is pretty telling - there is no way it's national, no reports of that kind around here and' same as last season no feedback of this kind bfrom the BFA

Roger Patterson has been talking about premature queen failure for years

and for years it has been proven to be a figment of his imagination

 

[robmort]

I lost 3 out of 5 hives last winter, so I sympathise, and I know many, even local BKA apiaries, lost as many and even more in the south and southeast generally after the cold spell we had. Still had an excellent harvest with 120kg from 2 hives! I built back up to 4 and this winter I've lost none though it hasn't been as cold.

 

[Erichalfbee]

On a totally different subject I like the op banner on the authors avatar

You have @RogerIvy to thank for that.

 

[Newbeeneil]

The mildly interesting thing is that all the hives were losing weight at the same rate until mid December when the two dead outs stayed constant indicating they went in the same fortnight. Funny how losing hives still affects you. I lose so few that two in one winter was a bit of a kick in the teeth. I reduced numbers thinking this was due to be a bad swarm year so 6 to 4 and now down to 2! The good thing is the remaining two are both daughters of my best ever queen so expansion should be a pleasant experience.
On a totally different subject I like the op banner on the authors avatar

If you are ever up on the Surey/Sussex/Hants border over the next month or so you are welcome to a nuc as I (hopefully) will have too many.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

That's sad Eric ... but there are a lot of winter losses being reported where there are lots of stores left in the hive and hardly any bees left ... it does indicate that there is an issue. Roger Patterson has been talking about premature queen failure for years and seems to get shot down with 'it's Varroa' or 'poor beekeeping practice'.

I think there is an issue with some queens ... and their ability to lay up sufficient bees going into winter - I can't prove anything but you've been keeping bees long enough to know what you are doing and you treat for varroa so there has to be something beyond that is causing losses.

No doubt someone will be along to say it's not a national problem and we are seeing only what has been un-noticed in the past ... but .. it does seem there are more unexplained losses these days.

I understand Selby BKA is currently discussing unexplained numbers of losses amongst their members. However I noticed activity at all my hive entrances in today's sunshine so I've got my fingers crossed this bodes well for the season.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

On a totally different subject I like the op banner on the authors avatar

Thanks for that! I hadn't clocked it yet.

 

[enrico]

If you are ever up on the Surey/Sussex/Hants border over the next month or so you are welcome to a nuc as I (hopefully) will have too many.

That's very kind but there are certainly more deserving people than me . I will enjoy the expanding the apiary again .

 

[The Poot]

The mildly interesting thing is that all the hives were losing weight at the same rate until mid December when the two dead outs stayed constant indicating they went in the same fortnight. Funny how losing hives still affects you. I lose so few that two in one winter was a bit of a kick in the teeth. I reduced numbers thinking this was due to be a bad swarm year so 6 to 4 and now down to 2! The good thing is the remaining two are both daughters of my best ever queen so expansion should be a pleasant experience.
On a totally different subject I like the op banner on the authors avatar

Do you think there’s a chance the queens you selected, when you reduced down, were (if generated last year) poorly mated?
My local BKA are doing a survey of keepers who have losses - there are several of them apparently- in an attempt to narrow down the cause/s.
So sorry for you Eric

 

[enrico]

Do you think there’s a chance the queens you selected, when you reduced down, were (if generated last year) poorly mated?
My local BKA are doing a survey of keepers who have losses - there are several of them apparently- in an attempt to narrow down the cause/s.
So sorry for you Eric

No, they went into winter with the same prolific queens they had had all summer. I have a feeling I left one combine too late, i was really unable to see if they had settled before I had to leave them to it. the combination was done by paper but the queen I removed was from the more stroppy hive so they may have sorted out the remaining quieter queen. The other combine was fine and went into winter strongly. I knew something was wrong but when the weather recently warmed there was activity at the entrance. Pretty certain that was minor robbing out from already dead hives. No problem really, just felt good to share this morning when it was convenient to check properly.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the remaining two are both daughters of my best ever queen

Younger queens over-winter far more successfully. I came down to Surrey today and looked at 12. The 11 with 2023 queens were flying, but the one that was not has a queen going into her 3rd year. Still going, but they needed her to perform well last autumn and they certainly need her to do so now. If she didn't then or can't now, the risk factor increases.

they went into winter with the same prolific queens they had had all summer

How old were they?

 

[enrico]

Younger queens over-winter far more successfully. I came down to Surrey today and looked at 12. The 11 with 2023 queens were flying, but the one that was not has a queen going into her 3rd year. Still going, but they needed her to perform well last autumn and they certainly need her to do so now. If she didn't then or can't now, the risk factor increases.


How old were they?

Second year. I change queens every two years as Swarm control but they can go into the third if I am increasing stock. Nothing is written in stone. Good queens survive, crap queens get knocked on the head.

 

[Newbeeneil]

That's very kind but there are certainly more deserving people than me . I will enjoy the expanding the apiary again .

No problem, but bear it in mind as we are not out of the woods yet survival wise and hopefully I'm likely to have the best part of 20 colonies that I need to find homes for.

 

[Wilco]

Commiserations. I had a really bad winter last year which for me was a combination of wasps and slipping up on varroa control if I'm honest. This year has been much better overall although I did wonder, if a high ivy yield were to coincide with when the winter bees are laid, whether that could cause problems. The other query I wonder about is CBPV. We seem to only think about it in Summer yet it could explain some winter deaths too, especially when bees are in closer contact in the cluster.