Africanized bees

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Anthony Appleyard 

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See Africanized bee :: to what extent can it happen that such bees may evolve to becoming more gentle because, if bees en masse attack a target unnecessarily, each bee attacks and dies, as it is with bees stinging, and thus more aggressive bees lose more foragers in each attack?
 

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See Africanized bee :: to what extent can it happen that such bees may evolve to becoming more gentle because, if bees en masse attack a target unnecessarily, each bee attacks and dies, as it is with bees stinging, and thus more aggressive bees lose more foragers in each attack?
Are you serious?
We don't have africanised bees in the UK so nobody can answer that. You should probably post your question on an American forum and see what sort of answer you get. I suspect it won't be very polite.
 

Michael Palmer 

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I haven’t got Africanized bees here in Vermont. Too far north for them to survive. They have been found in Maine and New York in migratory operations returning from their pollination runs. Also found in package bees or nucleus colonies originating in Florida or Texas, etc. not common. These have been found to be seriously defensive.
But s as bout if they can be calmed. I would say yes. I’ve seen a number of apiaries in Mexico where the bees are Africanized. The cells are the smallest I have ever seen...a good indication of the Scutellata genes. First time in an apiary there , they dressed me in a heavy suit. I’m thinking Ru-Row! Wasn’t long before I took off the suit. Too damn hot for that noise...they weren’t attacking me. Then in 2019 I visited 4 apiaries in the state of Oaxaca. Again they dressed me in a heavy jacket/veil setup. After nearing heat stroke...shaky and pukey, no more suit. My shite shirt...sleeves rolled up, and a veil. Plenty. Got a couple stings but no more. Funny thing...the stings are smaller than what I see here. Also much less venom per sting.
So, yes, I do believe they can be tamed
 

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I haven’t got Africanized bees here in Vermont. Too far north for them to survive. They have been found in Maine and New York in migratory operations returning from their pollination runs. Also found in package bees or nucleus colonies originating in Florida or Texas, etc. not common. These have been found to be seriously defensive.
But s as bout if they can be calmed. I would say yes. I’ve seen a number of apiaries in Mexico where the bees are Africanized. The cells are the smallest I have ever seen...a good indication of the Scutellata genes. First time in an apiary there , they dressed me in a heavy suit. I’m thinking Ru-Row! Wasn’t long before I took off the suit. Too damn hot for that noise...they weren’t attacking me. Then in 2019 I visited 4 apiaries in the state of Oaxaca. Again they dressed me in a heavy jacket/veil setup. After nearing heat stroke...shaky and pukey, no more suit. My shite shirt...sleeves rolled up, and a veil. Plenty. Got a couple stings but no more. Funny thing...the stings are smaller than what I see here. Also much less venom per sting.
So, yes, I do believe they can be tamed
Was that by requeening? i.e. reinstating European genes or open mating? where the environmental influence would remain predominantly African. As I understand it, Africanised queens emerge a day earlier giving european queens a developmental disadvantage.

My question really boils down to: were these aggressive European colonies in an Africanised area, less aggressive africanised colonies (which is really what Anthony Appleyard is asking) or somewhere inbetween (which probably doesn't exist because of the advantage africanised queens have)?
 
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jenkinsbrynmair 

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I haven’t got Africanized bees here in Vermont. Too far north for them to survive. They have been found in Maine and New York in migratory operations returning from their pollination runs. Also found in package bees or nucleus colonies originating in Florida or Texas, etc. not common. These have been found to be seriously defensive.
But s as bout if they can be calmed. I would say yes. I’ve seen a number of apiaries in Mexico where the bees are Africanized. The cells are the smallest I have ever seen...a good indication of the Scutellata genes. First time in an apiary there , they dressed me in a heavy suit. I’m thinking Ru-Row! Wasn’t long before I took off the suit. Too damn hot for that noise...they weren’t attacking me. Then in 2019 I visited 4 apiaries in the state of Oaxaca. Again they dressed me in a heavy jacket/veil setup. After nearing heat stroke...shaky and pukey, no more suit. My shite shirt...sleeves rolled up, and a veil. Plenty. Got a couple stings but no more. Funny thing...the stings are smaller than what I see here. Also much less venom per sting.
So, yes, I do believe they can be tamed
Funnily enough, seen a few yootoob videos of someone 'quaking' at the thought of inspecting their Anfricanized bees, I watch in anticipation as they open up, then think "eh! is that it?" seen pissier colonies around the sticks here.
I believe a lot of it is down to being over hyped by the hollywood horror movie productions like 'swarm' and the like.
 

gmonag 

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Are you serious?
We don't have africanised bees in the UK so nobody can answer that. You should probably post your question on an American forum and see what sort of answer you get. I suspect it won't be very polite.
He is a bot
 

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Funnily enough, seen a few yootoob videos of someone 'quaking' at the thought of inspecting their Anfricanized bees, I watch in anticipation as tey open up, then thing "eh! is that it?" seen pissier colonies around the sticks here.
I believe a lot of it is down to being over hyped by the hollywood horror movie productions like 'swarm' and the like.
I suppose this supports your comment:
 

domino 

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Once the Irish breeding station up it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 

Michael Palmer 

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Was that by requeening? i.e. reinstating European genes or open mating? where the environmental influence would remain predominantly African. As I understand it, Africanised queens emerge a day earlier giving european queens a developmental disadvantage.

My question really boils down to: were these aggressive European colonies in an Africanised area, less aggressive africanised colonies (which is really what Anthony Appleyard is asking) or somewhere inbetween (which probably doesn't exist because of the advantage africanised queens have)?

No, not by requeening. The cells were way to small to be from European bees. Most of these combs, if not all, are foundationless.
 

Michael Palmer 

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Funnily enough, seen a few yootoob videos of someone 'quaking' at the thought of inspecting their Anfricanized bees, I watch in anticipation as they open up, then think "eh! is that it?" seen pissier colonies around the sticks here.
I believe a lot of it is down to being over hyped by the hollywood horror movie productions like 'swarm' and the like.
Maybe. See if you can't find any videos of Dee Lusby's bees in Arizona. Maybe the one posted by a Solomon Parker. You will be shocked.
Also my friend and interpreter Aurelio, in New Mexico, had a swarm land in equipment on his front porch. No big deal until they built up. Then he couldn't leave the house by the front door. They killed his peacocks. Almost his dogs. They had to be destroyed. Typical of the Africanized bees in the Southwest US.
 

Ian123 

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Maybe. See if you can't find any videos of Dee Lusby's bees in Arizona. Maybe the one posted by a Solomon Parker. You will be shocked.
Also my friend and interpreter Aurelio, in New Mexico, had a swarm land in equipment on his front porch. No big deal until they built up. Then he couldn't leave the house by the front door. They killed his peacocks. Almost his dogs. They had to be destroyed. Typical of the Africanized bees in the Southwest US.
Would that be the lusbys that spent years promoting small cell telling people the bees they had were not Africanised, and surviving because they were small bees? I could be wrong of course😂
 

Michael Palmer 

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I never once saw this in Mexico. Granted they often had someone nominated to be the designated smoker. Honestly, I got annoyed by the constant, non-stop smoking as I worked with the colony. Eventually took the smoker and used it as needed. Not much needed. But, I put it down for a minute and Señor smoker took over again. Some of the gifts of honey various beekeepers gave me tasted of smoke. No Doubt Bean Sprout
 

Michael Palmer 

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Would that be the lusbys that spent years promoting small cell telling people the bees they had were not Africanised, and surviving because they were small bees? I could be wrong of course😂
Yep, Dee Lusby, filmed by Solomon Parker, one of her treatment free, small cell disciples
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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I never once saw this in Mexico. Granted they often had someone nominated to be the designated smoker. Honestly, I got annoyed by the constant, non-stop smoking as I worked with the colony.
It's the same out in Africa - most have been taught by the usual smoker obsessed 'experts' coming over from the UK, when I was out in Lesotho, I hardly used a smoker at all and the bees were much more placid.
Visited a convent in Maseru just out of courtesy (they wanted me to see their bees) and they had a large earthenwarejar of honey on the kitchen table, so I was given a taste. I've had less smoky kippers.
 
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