Advice on Today's Cut Out

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beeno

Queen Bee
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Apr 25, 2011
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Hi All,
Carried out a cut out from an 'extended' bird box today. Found the queen and she is presently caged. Lots of stores and these girls have not been fed which was interesting. Only 50p size of brood though - it's either or isn't? Anyway, what I wanted advise on is that they are wirling around my garden. Definitely, a swarm attempt. How long can I keep the queen caged? Better put a QE on the swarm box and release her? No open brood. Was rather busy so I didn't look for eggs.
 
Better put a QE on the swarm box and release her?

That's what I've done in similar situations, and usually she will start laying in a day or so. Once she does she should stick around.
 
Can you steal a frame of brood from another hive to help 'anchor' the new girls?

// and it would also help the build-up of the recipients - question would be about the donors.


/// you could keep her caged for several days, if she has attendants to feed her, even through the bars!
 
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Hi CeeJay and itma,
Went to pick up some stragglers, not many. Was given a present for my troubles which was sweet. Nice bees, but definitely nuc size. Overwintered queen though, so I give her a couple of weeks. Thanks for your input. I have put QE over the entrance hole and will mark and let queen out tomorrow. Very quiet in swarm box tonight so maybe they are over wanting to hop it! Take QE off as soon as they start foraging. Will see how she goes before I invest the labours of my existing colonies on her. Many thanks for your inputs. I am all beed out!
 
As per my thread, our Monday cut-out had plenty stores, 8x4" sealed brood and twice that in eggs....was a pig to box and half of it took off fifty metres into the brambles the next day. Loads of wax-making bees chaining, no overcrowding, plenty space, no queen cups even. Very odd. Caged her, and broke the tab AND put a QE under. One will see. Strange times ahead....
 
I'm confused - if q is caged why do you have a q excluder on the entrance? And why then take it off when the workers start foraging?
 
I'm confused - if q is caged why do you have a q excluder on the entrance? And why then take it off when the workers start foraging?

Hi Easy Beesy,
The queen being caged was only ever a temporary measure to keep her safe and to enable me to mark her once I got the stragglers in late evening. Also, I had their old home next to the new one so it was a great help to have the queen caged to facilitate the move. Put things progressed in that they wanted to swarm - abscond I guess is the right term in this context. So the plan today is to mark and release the queen and then take the QE off when they start to forage in a couple of days time. No I did not go for a belt and braces approach, but it ended up like that albeit temporarily.
 
good deal and good luck beeno - please keep us posted on the results.
(Occasionally I've had queens bolt on me even after workers started foraging, so I always like to know what others are doing and how it went)
 
Well done, Beeno, and for not taking any chances
 
Hi guys,
Thanks for the support. She is marked and released. Saw her disappear in between two frames. She got a frenzied welcome back! Home they didn't ball her. Anyhow, nuc seemed content much quieter and a bit of foraging I think, but no pollen coming back. Heard a lot of what I call 'snap, crackle and pop' which I have assumed is comb building? Tomorrow is going to be a cold day +10C so I guess nothing much will be happening. Certainly will keep you posted. Thanks again.
 
Hi Guys,
Update as promised. They have been a bit flighty! Thought they were going to go on Sunday, but I think they decided it was too cold. Had taken the QE off the swarm box as it was down to one bee space and not fair I thought. Today, is their first day of foraging with purpose with fresh pollen going in so fingers crossed. I shall be looking for capped brood in due course and decide how to proceed then as I will have to give them some 'emerging brood' which is going to be painful. I expect it is a cast swarm from last year, so perhaps it will build up to a respectable nuc to replace the one I lost or she could be poorly mated! Being my first cut out I was pleased that it was small. Susbees let us know how your cut out is doing.
 
Pollen coming in is usually a good sign of established residency.
Good luck.
 
Hi CeeJay,
Thanks for that. However, I never count my chickens... Will let you know when I have inspected as she could still be a drone layer with the summer we had last season.
 
Hi Guys,
Update, but it is not good news. I was suspicious that they had all those stores and next too no brood. She started to lay multiple eggs per cell. Cut out a bit of a mess, so a left her with one comb of her own less eggs and two empty drawn combs and feed. In two weeks they have built one comb, ample stores, but no eggs or brood? This is not worth investing in is it?
 
No, unfortunately it doesn't sound like it's worth saving.
But you definitely have a queen, and she hasn't laid anything at all? Weird.
Personally (and this is just one guy's opinion) I would pinch the queen and combine them with your lightest hive. 'One in the hand' and all that....
Keep us posted and good luck
 
No, unfortunately it doesn't sound like it's worth saving.
But you definitely have a queen, and she hasn't laid anything at all? Weird.
Personally (and this is just one guy's opinion) I would pinch the queen and combine them with your lightest hive. 'One in the hand' and all that....
Keep us posted and good luck

Hi CeeJay,
I have a good looking queen. I even thought she had got fatter at the last inspection, but no eggs or larvae. Bringing in pollen, putting syrup in the comb, building comb, but that is it! I am not going to upset the bees or my existing hives. If she never laid then they should die any minute now!
 
Well that is just bizarre.
At least you have some stores and comb for another hive...
 
Hi CeeJay,
I have a good looking queen. I even thought she had got fatter at the last inspection, but no eggs or larvae. Bringing in pollen, putting syrup in the comb, building comb, but that is it! I am not going to upset the bees or my existing hives. If she never laid then they should die any minute now!

I'd suggest offering them a 'test frame' with (eggs and open) brood.
If she isn't the real deal, then they'll raise one or more QCs. And I'd let them raise one all the way.
Such 'scrub queens' can (despite what some folk may say) be every bit as good as any other queen. First-hand experience of that.
 
Hi itma,
Nice to hear from you. They may not even be winter bees for all I know, and have not reared any brood for a very long time, so I am more interested to see what will happen without manipulation if anything! I shall be needing some new queens in due course and I have one particular hive in mind.
 
Hi itma,
Nice to hear from you. They may not even be winter bees for all I know, and have not reared any brood for a very long time, so I am more interested to see what will happen without manipulation if anything! I shall be needing some new queens in due course and I have one particular hive in mind.

Sooner or later, without brood, they'll go laying worker, and you'll see drone brood messing up the comb.
And then people will be telling you to just shake them out...

If you've got a nice colony in mind, I'd say that now it is sooner the better to pinch a frame from them.
Seems a nicer idea to get them to raise a new queen for you, rather than just watch the colony die.
If you have a colony going great guns, then taking a bit of brood away from them (and replacing with some empty drawn comb?) is going to help relieve swarming pressure. And if it gets you another viable colony, its well worth it - even if you only sell on a late nuc. There's a LOT of people currently looking for bees!
 

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