Advice on a very steep learning curve of a day

[Newbeebeekeeper]

So long mess of a story short i split my hive before they swarmed on me there was the old queen in a nuc with a frame of brood and 2 frames of stores and 2 of comb. I moved the hive sideways so the flyers went in.

I got a call today saying they had swarmed and i managed to catch most of them and when i tried to reintroduce the queen they tried to ball her so she is now in a hive with some bees with 2 frames of bees. The nuc has 4 frames of bees.

Is it possible to put the queen and her bees where the nuc was and put the nuc on top and turn it the other direction in the hope that when they leave they will join with the queen again.

As the nuc has no queen cells in it and in the large hive with all the bees has 3 queen cells but all on the one frame.

I am not confident enough to try grafting queen cells etc.

Any advice as to what to do would be appreciated

 

[Beagle23]

So long mess of a story short i split my hive before they swarmed on me there was the old queen in a nuc with a frame of brood and 2 frames of stores and 2 of comb. I moved the hive sideways so the flyers went in.

I got a call today saying they had swarmed and i managed to catch most of them and when i tried to reintroduce the queen they tried to ball her so she is now in a hive with some bees with 2 frames of bees. The nuc has 4 frames of bees.

Is it possible to put the queen and her bees where the nuc was and put the nuc on top and turn it the other direction in the hope that when they leave they will join with the queen again.

As the nuc has no queen cells in it and in the large hive with all the bees has 3 queen cells but all on the one frame.

I am not confident enough to try grafting queen cells etc.

Any advice as to what to do would be appreciated

When you say swarmed are you sure that's what you mean? If the queen swarmed from the NUC she would have left half the colony and some queen cells. If she and all of the other bees in the NUC left then that's absconding and simply catching them and returning to the NUC is unlikely to be a solution.

 

[Newbeebeekeeper]

She left the nuc and didn't take all the bees with her. Now saying that some of them were probably nurse bees and couldn't fly! So she maybe took all that could fly. But there are no queen cells in the nuc cell now

 

[Erichalfbee]

You split the colony by making a nuc where you put the queen. Then where did the nuc go? Aside or where the main hive used to be?

Leave the queen where she is in the new nuc and move it away. Reduce the queen cells in the big hive and make sure it’s in its old position. Mark your cell. Return in five days to remove any more the bees have made.

Unite the spare bees back to the parent hive with a little air freshener

 

[Newbeebeekeeper]

I moved the hive to the side and put the nuc where the old hive was.
Where do i put the queen now as where she is currently isnt great.

If i put the nuc and the old hive together will they not go back to where the nuc was?

 

[enrico]

Sorry, wrong answer.... Deleted

 

[Erichalfbee]

Right. They swarmed because the queen had all the flyers. You should have left the parent hive minus the queen where it was and taken the queen away in the nuc. How do you mean where she is us not great? As long as she has one frame of brood one of stores and some drawn frame she will be fine. Check she has enough nurse bees tomorrow and if not shake a couple of super frames in.
The rest just put together.
That’s what I would do.perhaps cleverer folk have better ideas

 

[Eyeman]

Sounded like you were doing a Pagden but put a nuc on the original site with old queen and then filled it up with brood/stores.
You really need to use a full size hive with only 1 frame of brood and the rest foundation with old queen on original site.
So what to do now!
I presume you don't have any more full size hives and that's why you used the nuc?
I would do as Ericha says.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Right. They swarmed because the queen had all the flyers.

They would also have been overcrowded in there so just went,leaving enough bees to cover the brood

 

[Newbeebeekeeper]

The queen is in a full sized hive but has no brood or nurse bees.
Can i put a frame of nurse bees in with the old queen taking it from the old hive?

And if i take all the rest in the nuc and dust them with flower and put them in with the old bees again?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

saying that some of them were probably nurse bees and couldn't fly!

I think you have been reading the wrong comics - or listening to the wrong ones, all bees can fly from a few days after emergence 'flying bees' is just a term used to describe foragers. the bees that remained were just covering the brood.

The queen is in a full sized hive but has no brood or nurse bees.

Why would she need any 'nurse bees' as she hasn't any brood?
You must walk away from this habit propagated by some of giving bees fixed duties within the colony. When she starts laying, the bees that swarmed with her will take care of nursing duties until the first brood emerges. you do't need to bring in 'nurse bees' from anywhere else - where do you think a natural swarm finds its nurse bees?

And if i take all the rest in the nuc and dust them with flower and put them in with the old bees again?

add some eggs and some sugar too - we can have a nice bit of bee cake

 

[MartinL]

The queen is in a full sized hive but has no brood or nurse bees.

You mean The SWARM!

Can i put a frame of nurse bees in with the old queen taking it from the old hive?

You can stand on your head next to the hive if you like??

And if i take all the rest in the nuc and dust them with flower and put them in with the old bees again?

????????????????????

We're in the beginners section here aren't we?

You probably need to read some books and forget whatever you've seen on U tube.

 

[Erichalfbee]

........

 

[enrico]

Ok, I will try and explain
To do an AS think how a swarm works. That is what we are trying to mimic.
So we put the old queen with new frames on the old site
We put the old hive with queen cell on a new site.
In this way the queen has new wax and all the flying bees which will return to the old site she is in. Just like a swarm.
The bees left in the old hive on the new site have all the young bees and all the old frames just as they would with a swarm so they make new queen cells or use one that is already made and charged. They don't know that they have been moved to a new site because they haven't been out flying yet!
There is another method where you move the queen to a new site but that is a little complicated for a beginner as it needs certain things to be done, rain or shine, on certain days.
My advice is to get to grips with the normal AS and try and work out in your head how it works. Once you realise why we do it that way you will never get it wrong!
It is a learning curve but not all is lost. You now have the flying bees without a queen, they will make queen cells as long as you make sure they have eggs and brood.
The queen is left with a much reduced colony of young bees. It will take a while for them to recover but they will do
A good beginners book that is easy to read is 'bees at the bottom of the garden'
I found it a great help when I started before days of internet forums!
If you need more explanation then please ask
E

 

[Newbeebeekeeper]

Ok, I will try and explain
To do an AS think how a swarm works. That is what we are trying to mimic.
So we put the old queen with new frames on the old site
We put the old hive with queen cell on a new site.
In this way the queen has new wax and all the flying bees which will return to the old site she is in. Just like a swarm.
The bees left in the old hive on the new site have all the young bees and all the old frames just as they would with a swarm so they make new queen cells or use one that is already made and charged. They don't know that they have been moved to a new site because they haven't been out flying yet!
There is another method where you move the queen to a new site but that is a little complicated for a beginner as it needs certain things to be done, rain or shine, on certain days.
My advice is to get to grips with the normal AS and try and work out in your head how it works. Once you realise why we do it that way you will never get it wrong!
It is a learning curve but not all is lost. You now have the flying bees without a queen, they will make queen cells as long as you make sure they have eggs and brood.
The queen is left with a much reduced colony of young bees. It will take a while for them to recover but they will do
A good beginners book that is easy to read is 'bees at the bottom of the garden'
I found it a great help when I started before days of internet forums!
If you need more explanation then please ask
E

Thank you for being constructive and helpful i will check it out