Advice needed: Laying workers

[IzzM]

Hi everyone,

I am just looking for some advice as to what to do with two of my hives- both of which have laying workers.

I'm 99% sure that is what the problem is- there are multiple eggs present, some of which have been laid in the wall of the cells. The temperament of the colony settled down and they are now very quiet and docile. I put in frames of eggs and uncapped brood, however they raised no queen and continued to produce drone brood. I went through the hive time and time again to see if I could find a queen- to no avail.

I also tried shaking out the hives on the floor nearby and hoping that the DLW's wouldn't make it back- it didn't work, the DLW's are obviously flying bees.

I have researched this extensively and know I have three options; either 1) join them to a strong hive 2) shake them out in front of a group of strong hives or 3) simply take them away from the hives and shake them out on the floor to die.

Here is why I am having some trouble:

1) The colonies with DLW's are very large and strong, despite being queenless for over 4 weeks. I don't want to risk my smaller healthy colonies by joining them and risking the queen being overrun by multiple DLW's and have been advised against doing this.
2) The site where I keep my hives is in an apiary with other people's hives- they do not want me to shake out the DLW hives near their hives in case the drone laying workers impact their own colonies which is completely understandable.
3) I have been putting this off- it seems a bit harsh to throw them onto the floor to die when they could just die naturally in the hive. This might be me being a bit silly, so if shaking them out is the most humane way to deal with the problem then I will do it. Does anyone know if I can I leave the bees in the hive to die of old age instead of killing them? I don't know if this will prolong any suffering they are currently experiencing! They are currently docile, have stores and are still flying and bringing in pollen etc.

I have been advised against buying a queen at this point in the season- if anyone thinks it's worth a shot then I will also try that!

Thanks so much

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

1. Laying workers always lay drone - they are incapable of doing anything else
2. All workers are capable of laying - and they will if given half the chance.
3. All laying workers can fly so shaking them out and hoping the layers won't return to the hive is pointless
4. shaking out a hive of laying workers near other hives won't have a negative impact on them. Once they are allowed into a queenright hive the queen and brood pheromones in there will once again supress their laying urge and they will behave as any other worker
5. You say they've only been queenless for about 4 weeks, a bit too soon to assume they are queenless and are you sure they're laying workers, not a DLQ? eggs on the side of a cell isn't a definite indicator of LW's

 

[jeff33]

Not many options if the other beeks don't want you to shake them out which is your only option so late in the season. Uniting won't work and too late in the season for any other options.

 

[IzzM]

1. Laying workers always lay drone - they are incapable of doing anything else
2. All workers are capable of laying - and they will if given half the chance.
3. All laying workers can fly so shaking them out and hoping the layers won't return to the hive is pointless
4. shaking out a hive of laying workers near other hives won't have a negative impact on them. Once they are allowed into a queenright hive the queen and brood pheromones in there will once again supress their laying urge and they will behave as any other worker
5. You say they've only been queenless for about 4 weeks, a bit too soon to assume they are queenless and are you sure they're laying workers, not a DLQ? eggs on the side of a cell isn't a definite indicator of LW's

Thanks for taking the time to reply- I know that laying workers always lay drone etc. Having been through them several times I'm assuming it's an issue with laying workers but it could be a DLQ (even if it is, I can't find her and have enlisted the help of others to find her too to no avail). The other hive with LW's is a split we took off the original hive in summer and both have the issue, which I why I have assumed LW's now.

"shaking out a hive of laying workers near other hives won't have a negative impact on them. Once they are allowed into a queenright hive the queen and brood pheromones in there will once again supress their laying urge and they will behave as any other worker"- Unfortunately the other people in my apiary are not keen on this so I can't do it- thank you though.

 

[IzzM]

Not many options if the other beeks don't want you to shake them out which is your only option so late in the season. Uniting won't work and too late in the season for any other options.

Thanks for your reply. I guess my question now is whether I can keep them in the hive and let them die naturally, or if it is more humane to shake them out?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for your reply. I guess my question now is whether I can keep them in the hive and let them die naturally, or if it is more humane to shake them out?

No don’t shake them out away from home. They will dwindle and get robbed out in the end. Some might drift to other colonies
What I might be tempted to do would be to unite them in stages. A few frames at a time once a week? Shake a whole bunch of bees into a super and unite that over newspaper? You could save a lot of the bees like that and maybe your neighbours might not even notice?

 

[jeff33]

No don’t shake them out away from home. They will dwindle and get robbed out in the end. Some might drift to other colonies
What I might be tempted to do would be to unite them in stages. A few frames at a time once a week? Shake a whole bunch of bees into a super and unite that over newspaper? You could save a lot of the bees like that and maybe your neighbours might not even notice?

That could work and will ensure they don't go in your neighbours hives. If you have 2 Q+ hives even better to spread them evenly.

 

[deemann1]

What I now do with laying workers after experimenting a couple times is make a push in cage half the size of a frame , trap queen with some workers and brood in it , unite DLW colony return 7 days later and release queen

 

[drex]

After advice on here, I did the unite in stages as suggested by Dani and it worked a treat. I too had problems with shaking them out where they were situated

 

[enrico]

I would add a couple of frames at a time to your other hives using airfreshener a quick squirt on the frame to be added and a very quick squirt in the gap they are going into and bobs your uncle. You can do that every day.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would add a couple of frames at a time to your other hives using airfreshener a quick squirt on the frame to be added and a very quick squirt in the gap they are going into and bobs your uncle. You can do that every day.

Yes if you’re into air freshener that might work. I still haven’t tried it. Lost my nerve.
I don’t know if I would go with it for laying workers though….

 

[oliver90owner]

A strong colony with no queen may need two or three frames of eggs adding before the laying workers are suppressed.

Things like laying pattern have not been addressed by the OP. If the colonies are to be saved, the laying workers need to be suppressed and preferably a laying queen added. I might try putting the colony above a strong colony with a young queen, with an OMF or travelling screen between, to prevent mingling but with queen pheromone present. It’s now late to start queen rearing from emergency cells, so laying queens are really needed…

It does seem unfortunate for two laying queens(?) have been lost in the last month. An unusual situation. Strong colonies are not going to need any more bees, in Cumbria at this time of the year, and will soon be contracting as we move towards the autumn.

An interesting problem. Autumn uniting is generally for weaker colonies with other weak but healthy colonies (of known reason for needing extra bees).