Absent queen from prime swarm

[Beeforest]

I hived a prime swarm containing a marked queen exactly a month ago. As she was marked I saw her enter the warre hive having run them in.

This hive just hasn't built as quickly as I thought it would - little entrance activity and hardly any pollen going in. Today I decided to inspect, they were passive and easy to work. I was surprised to see neither queen, eggs or brood. There was a small amount of comb about one third of a full box but as I had not fed them much I wasn't too surprised by this. Though I think I should have fed them more!

My thoughts are to leave them a while longer to see if I did miss the queen during the inspection, though I know their numbers will be dwindling fast now if she really has gone. In the meantime i will move another warre hive closer each couple of days so I can unite the two colonies in a few weeks time if I see no improvement.

Does any have any reasons as to why this queen is not laying or why she seems to be absent?
I think I'm following a reasonable course of action but does anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

Supercedure?

 

[Beeforest]

Was thinking that as a possibility but didn't see any supercedure cells and there was only a small amount of comb to go through.
If they were queenless I would have expected them to be a little more feisty. Handled them without gloves without any issue.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[Tom Bick]

Virgin left with the swarm and original queen.

 

[Beeforest]

Virgin left with the swarm and original queen.

It looks to me as if the comb has not had any brood in it at all. So doubt if a virgin queen was raised and then the hive swarmed within a month of settling within their new home. ( if that's what you mean)
I do think that uniting is going to be my best option

 

[newportbuzz]

could you get a test frame from your other warre hive to better figure out whats going on in there.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Where did the queen come from?
It could be a supercedure in the original hive as the queen was failing - that went wrong and they swarmed anyway.

Hardly any comb. Is there any food in the comb?

So a marked queen has been in the hive a month and there are no eggs. Is it wise to leave them for any longer? There's something wrong.

 

[Beeforest]

Where did the queen come from?
It could be a supercedure in the original hive as the queen was failing - that went wrong and they swarmed anyway.

Hardly any comb. Is there any food in the comb?

So a marked queen has been in the hive a month and there are no eggs. Is it wise to leave them for any longer? There's something wrong.

The queen was marked white and last years and came from a friends hive on my apiary. The swarm was a large prime and I guessed was ideal for a warre which I am using for the first time this year to supplement my nationals.
There is a little honey and pollen in the comb but nothing to talk about. I have another warre with a cast swarm housed within which I will probably unite but so far this queen has yet to lay. I think this will be my best option but wanted to ensure that the queen in the first hive had really failed before I conduct the unite. Do you think I am being over patient?

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Checking for eggs? Inspections? test frames? I thought you said it was a Warre hive. I think I have missed something here but I shall stay quiet.

 

[Mike a]

With the fun weather we've had I won't be surprised if when they swarmed you collected a prime swarm along with a cast swarm which merged into a single cluster. The original queen was then dispatched by the virgin and hence the problems you have now.

Weekly inspections imho are vital to monitor the colony for a range of different issues. Although I gather most warre hive owners feel differently about this but it would of given you the answer to the mystery.

Fingers crossed you now have a mated queen and she will start laying soon.

 

[Beeforest]

Checking for eggs? Inspections? test frames? I thought you said it was a Warre hive. I think I have missed something here but I shall stay quiet.

I have removeable top bars in the warres to make it easier for the bee inspector. Had a visit last year. I intended not to use them for my own inspection regime but observations outside the hive led me to that conclusion, I was right in this instance - something was untoward!

 

[Beeforest]

With the fun weather we've had I won't be surprised if when they swarmed you collected a prime swarm along with a cast swarm which merged into a single cluster. The original queen was then dispatched by the virgin and hence the problems you have now.

Weekly inspections imho are vital to monitor the colony for a range of different issues. Although I gather most warre hive owners feel differently about this but it would of given you the answer to the mystery.

Fingers crossed you now have a mated queen and she will start laying soon.

Thanks for that. Your thinking seems highly sensible. I will wait a while longer before uniting. Very glad I have moveable top bars to undertake the inspections!

 

[Tom Bick]

It looks to me as if the comb has not had any brood in it at all. So doubt if a virgin queen was raised and then the hive swarmed within a month of settling within their new home. ( if that's what you mean)
I do think that uniting is going to be my best option

No I was thinking the swarm had the original queen and a virgin.

The two fought it out and the virgin is still in the hive and needs a bit of time to get going.

 

[Beeforest]

No I was thinking the swarm had the original queen and a virgin.

The two fought it out and the virgin is still in the hive and needs a bit of time to get going.

Oh, so same as Mike A. Thanks for the clarity. It looks like I will be leaving it a bit longer then before thinking of uniting. Hoping the Ex virgin queen is primed and ready to fire! Will take a very careful look at next inspection to see her or at least the fruits of her labours!

Take it is it uncommon occurence for a virgin queen to leave with the mated queen? Would it have been due to unfavourable weather conditions at the time when the queen cell was sealed?

 

[Mike a]

Sorry Tom I missed your post for some reason.

imho good call

 

[Tom Bick]

No problem Mike obviously on the same wave length

 

[Beeforest]

Ok, enough of the mutual admiration you two!!
Many thanks