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Brosville 

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Yet again the cry has gone up "howsabout a new UK beekeeping association?", and I can fully understand and sympathise with the thoughts behind it, but I'd like to punt a possible alternative.
I can't claim it as my idea, or even a new one, as those much maligned (and admittedly slightly misnamed) Natural Beekeepers have sensibly decided that in the age of the internet, there is no actual need for an old-fashioned "association" with "officers", elections, fees, premises, rule books, vested interests, etc, etc, but instead a loose association of kindred spirits forming small self-governing local groups, answerable to noone can do all that is needed........ all that's required "at the top" is something like this forum, but beyond that, little need for "organisation" at all..........:coolgleamA:
To mangle an existing saying "If it's broke, why make another one that could end up just as awful?"
 
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These sort of things are usually suggested by people who want to run them..
 

Brosville 

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that's the whole point - I don't want to run anything, and can't really see the the need for anyone to do so either - and as I said, there would be nothing to "run"* anyway........:biggrinjester:

*there's probably some civil-servant weasellese that could be used to describe it, probably containing things like "non-hierarchical" - I prefer "a totally disorganised non-organisation":biggrinjester:
 

hedgerow pete 

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whilst the ideas are sound enough and i full support them whole heartedly.

may i just suggest that there will end up with at least one person dealing with every thing

so my idea is that if there was to be an internet based ass, a i would love there to be you would need to have someone that will deal with all the day to day runnings and as such a payroll for them a small fee per year to cover that and then the insurances for the members and away you go, meetings on the internet with the minutes posted after wards as i cant see 1,000 people on a chat room at once working to well.

but the biggest thing i want from a bee asc, is not just the insurance and membership but what about the political pressuring i want, the pressure on the bee suppliers to improve. the pressure on the paint makers for bee friendly paints, and who is going to send the postal bombs to monsanto and basf
 
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that's the whole point - I don't want to run anything, and can't really see the the need for anyone to do so either - and as I said, there would be nothing to "run"* anyway........:biggrinjester:

*there's probably some civil-servant weasellese that could be used to describe it, probably containing things like "non-hierarchical" - I prefer "a totally disorganised non-organisation":biggrinjester:
what I said was not meant in an offensive way to your post.... well, it was but not towards you....

totally disorganised non-organisation
I think that should be... non-organisation organisation. and not affiliated to any official organisational body or group..or non group..
 

Brosville 

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"what about the political pressuring?" - that's the whole point about a "loose" association bound together with a forum (run by non-compulsory donations) - the posters on the forum can tell government or chemical companies where to shove themselves in real time - polls can be started and run, giving a pretty fair cross-sectional view - there'd be none of this "you're too late, under obscure Rule 49a (as amended by 73iia) you can't tell Bayer to shove it's toxic poisons where the sun don't shine for at least 73 years as it would be against the rules".
Disease and latest research can be responded to instantly, and any commercial bias would get a VERY rough ride from those cynics amongst us :biggrinjester:
Should we actually need a high profile and exceptionally effective lobbyist to act on our collective behalf, may I nominate St Joanna (Lumley)?
 
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kazmcc 

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Count me in please :)

I am not part of any assoc anyway, this is where I come for advice and support.....if I've bugged my mentor too much that week lol
 

Hombre 

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Kazmcc,
One of the main benefits of belonging to the BBKA is the insurance aspect.

The rest has been well documented. A bit of a curates egg, but education and representation are important. The former I think is probably being done well, and the latter is as contentious as get out.
 

kazmcc 

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Kazmcc,
One of the main benefits of belonging to the BBKA is the insurance aspect.

The rest has been well documented. A bit of a curates egg, but education and representation are important. The former I think is probably being done well, and the latter is as contentious as get out.
Our little group are members of MBBA, but I don't go there, it's too far at the mo, what with having to use public transport, but I might start in spring. We are extrememly lucky enough to have a very knowledgeable mentor who is happy to answer every daft question I put to him and nudges me along when I need it. He attends pretty much every meeting we have with the bees and will do so for the next bee keeping year. Add him to the guys ( and gals ) on here and I think I do just fine :D
 
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Sounds like a commune.

As long as I don't have to wear a kaftan I'm in...;) Apart from the free love that is...
 

wojciech 

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Kazmcc,
One of the main benefits of belonging to the BBKA is the insurance aspect.

The rest has been well documented. A bit of a curates egg, but education and representation are important. The former I think is probably being done well, and the latter is as contentious as get out.

I think that most members value the insurance and if they were to consider leaving would want an alternative to the BDI.

As regards training, I think that a real effort has been made recently to improve it. I suspect that many newbies join their local branch after completing a beginners course. They do'nt necessarily seek to join the BBKA in doing this and are unaware of the BBKA policy of sponsorship by agrochemical firms - after all it is not advertised by the BBKA and has only come to light recently.

I would suggest that any alternative to the BBKA, whether an organisation or a loose grouping would need to firstly ensure that some alternative insurance was available and secondly that beginners courses were made available without a the inevitable link to the BBKA. Lastly, I suspect that most newbies look for support and to share experiences and face to face meetings, other than on the web, are sometrhing that they desire.
 

kazmcc 

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I think that most members value the insurance and if they were to consider leaving would want an alternative to the BDI.

As regards training, I think that a real effort has been made recently to improve it. I suspect that many newbies join their local branch after completing a beginners course. They do'nt necessarily seek to join the BBKA in doing this and are unaware of the BBKA policy of sponsorship by agrochemical firms - after all it is not advertised by the BBKA and has only come to light recently.

I would suggest that any alternative to the BBKA, whether an organisation or a loose grouping would need to firstly ensure that some alternative insurance was available and secondly that beginners courses were made available without a the inevitable link to the BBKA. Lastly, I suspect that most newbies look for support and to share experiences and face to face meetings, other than on the web, are sometrhing that they desire.
This is why the way I am being taught it unusual. Although we are members ( I checked ) we get pretty much walked through our first year by our mentor. There are two of us being taught, but others come to watch and take part a little, but eventually it will be down to us two to take care of them.

As well as being taught by a knowledgable bee keeper with bags of experience, I am reading every book recommended, and there are loads of people on here to explain things to me if I need it clarifying. I know I am lucky having a mentor who is willing to attend and take part for our first year, others are not so lucky.
 

Mike a 

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I want, the pressure on the bee suppliers to improve. the pressure on the paint makers for bee friendly paints.
Not so sure a postal hit on Monsanto or Bayer or any other huge company would make the slightest difference only annoy the mail room staff, but your fine suggestion to demand better from the others is easily done through this forum if Admin has no objections.

:leaving:
 

rog 

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I have been reading the above with interest. i see no reason why a forum based association shouldnt work. I am currently chair of such an assoc. It was very unusual in its day as eleven years ago it was thought it wouldnt work. We have a committee which meets online when the need occurs and have one AGM per year at the National rally.
We have a voluntary membership fee which covers the cost of the web costs.
It has run successfully for 11 years now and is still growing. It is now recognised worldwide as a place of expertise for the history and restoration of classic racing dinghies.
The only difference I can see is that we do meet up for real occasionaly to race our vintage boats but the main business is on line, proposals are discussed openly online and voted on at the AGM. All discussion takes place before the AGM. This meeting is limited to forty minutes as its a waste of good social /drinking time.
There is much frustration out there at the way the BBKA has gone about things and is the reason I am not a member of the local assoc although some individuals have been very supportive.

Surely there must be a way of sorting some insurance for those who want it.
 
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HaroldC 

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I think that most members value the insurance and if they were to consider leaving would want an alternative to the BDI.
The insurance provided by BBKA is not the same as BDI, which is administered by a seperate body.

If you are a member of a local association then £14 goes to the BBKA and a seperate amount - I believe this is £2 - goes to BDI Ltd. This covers you if your Bees and equipment have to be destroyed due to a notifiable disease - the £2 covers up to 3 hives - if you have more than 3 hives you pay an additional premium. The BBKA has a group insurance which covers individual members for both Public and Product liability up to £5,000,000. It also covers local associations for their organised activity - demonstrations, lectures and presence at events.

Since most contributors to this forum seem to be happy with the support provided by local groups and associations, it would seem that if a new central organisation were set up, the idea would be for local groups and associations to transfer their affiliation to the new organisation. This is much more complicated than it first appears. There would be a lot of unpicking to do.
 

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