A tale of 2 apiaries

[Paulypaul]

I have 3 strong mutt (from swarm) colonies in my back garden. They are bursting with activity, out and about coming back with yellow pollen even at 6C, most days. I opened them up today, they are active and curious.

I also have 3 Buckfast F1/F2 colonies, on identical hive set-ups, 400 metres away, in an abandoned orchard, which just sit in their hives all day, even at 12C. I've been arriving at the site wondering if all 3 may be dead-outs. Since November, there's seldom a bee outside, or at entrances.
Today, I opened them up and they barely need any smoke. They just sit there.
Until very recently, they have had to deal with a lot of wasps. Aside from that, they just seem to sit in the hive, clustering.

I'm not concerned, just curios.
Is it that my mutt colonies have found forage and the orchard apiary colonies haven't, so they just sit in their hives? Or, are they still traumatised by waspageddon?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

3 Buckfast F2/F3 colonies

mongrels then

which just sit in their hives all day

That's the remaining Buckfast genes showing

 

[pargyle]

I have 3 strong mutt (from swarm) colonies in my back garden. They are bursting with activity, out and about coming back with yellow pollen even at 6C, most days. I opened them up today, they are active and curious.

I also have 3 Buckfast F2/F3 colonies, on identical hive set-ups, 400 metres away, in an abandoned orchard, which just sit in their hives all day, even at 12C. I've been arriving at the site wondering if all 3 may be dead-outs. Since November, there's seldom a bee outside, or at entrances.
Today, I opened them up and they barely need any smoke. They just sit there.
Until very recently, they have had to deal with a lot of wasps. Aside from that, they just seem to sit in the hive, clustering.

I'm not concerned, just curios.
Is it that my mutt colonies have found forage and the orchard apiary colonies haven't, so they just sit in their hives? Or, are they still traumatised by waspageddon?

Curiosity killed the cat !... Why on earth are you opening them up at this time of the year ? .. If they are flying they are OK .. if they are not, there's nothing you can do about it. Leave them be ... fiddling for tbe sake of fiddling is not doing them any good - they have sealed everything up for winter and now they are going to have to go round and plug all the gaps you have created ...

 

[Amari]

In defence of Paul: it was probably 12C in Surrey today so little harm in looking under the crown board - as one does when trickling OA. Agree not ideal to lift frames out but, assuming Paul is a beginner, insatiable curiosity is difficult to resist!

 

[Paulypaul]

Curiosity killed the cat !... Why on earth are you opening them up at this time of the year ? .. If they are flying they are OK .. if they are not, there's nothing you can do about it. Leave them be ... fiddling for tbe sake of fiddling is not doing them any good - they have sealed everything up for winter and now they are going to have to go round and plug all the gaps you have created ...

I took the rooves off.
1 colony from each apiary has light stores. I was checking how much fondant they had eaten, as they're still light.

 

[Antipodes]

I have 3 strong mutt (from swarm) colonies in my back garden. They are bursting with activity, out and about coming back with yellow pollen even at 6C, most days. I opened them up today, they are active and curious.

I also have 3 Buckfast F1/F2 colonies, on identical hive set-ups, 400 metres away, in an abandoned orchard, which just sit in their hives all day, even at 12C. I've been arriving at the site wondering if all 3 may be dead-outs. Since November, there's seldom a bee outside, or at entrances.
Today, I opened them up and they barely need any smoke. They just sit there.
Until very recently, they have had to deal with a lot of wasps. Aside from that, they just seem to sit in the hive, clustering.

I'm not concerned, just curios.
Is it that my mutt colonies have found forage and the orchard apiary colonies haven't, so they just sit in their hives? Or, are they still traumatised by waspageddon?

My guess is it's to do with numbers of bees in each colony. The strong colonies are the ones with field bees collecting pollen. They may look similar in strength when looking down onto the top bars, but real numbers are more accurately assessed by removing frames (which you will do in spring). Well done for being curious. It makes life much more interesting

 

[pargyle]

I took the rooves off.
1 colony from each apiary has light stores. I was checking how much fondant they had eaten, as they're still light.

I understand ... we've all had itchy fingers - it goes with the beekeeping journey but ...get used to watching them at the hive entrance, make use of the inspection board - what drops out can tell you a lot, weigh and record to measure the stores usage, get used to hefting .. but above all ... and this goes for any time of the year ... if you open them up, even just taking the crown board off .. have a very good reason why you are doing it and what you NEED to find out. Every time you disturb the bees it sets them back - be it an hours work, a days work or a weeks work for them to repair the nest. If there is no good reason.... and curiosity is not a good reason ... think about opening them up and then DON'T.

 

[Paulypaul]

My guess is it's to do with numbers of bees in each colony. The strong colonies are the ones with field bees collecting pollen. They may look similar in strength when looking down onto the top bars, but real numbers are more accurately assessed by removing frames (which you will do in spring). Well done for being curious. It makes life much more interesting

I suspect this is the answer. The garden colonies were fed heavy syrup intermittently for little longer than the orchard apiray colonies. The timing may have created more winter bees. That's my guess.

 

[Wilco]

My guess is it's to do with numbers of bees in each colony. The strong colonies are the ones with field bees collecting pollen. They may look similar in strength when looking down onto the top bars, but real numbers are more accurately assessed by removing frames (which you will do in spring). Well done for being curious. It makes life much more interesting

Or is it... Isn't the point of diutinus bees that they do not age as rapidly/they remain 'more' juvenile for longer. Is it not equally plausible that of two equal sized colonies, the stronger colony in winter is the one with more 'younger' (non-foraging) bees, hence flying less? This is the colony which will have more nurse bees in spring.

Just to be devil's advocate. What I'm saying may well be rubbish.

 

[Paulypaul]

Or is it... Isn't the point of diutinus bees that they do not age as rapidly/they remain 'more' juvenile for longer. Is it not equally plausible that of two equal sized colonies, the stronger colony in winter is the one with more 'younger' (non-foraging) bees, hence flying less? This is the colony which will have more nurse bees in spring.

Just to be devil's advocate. What I'm saying may well be rubbish.

I appreciate a bit of devil's avocado.

 

[drex]

Your home bees are from swarms, hence likely to be locally adapted and used to flying in your temperatures.
Yout "Buckfast ", by their very name, will have come from elsewhere at least at some point.

 

[Wilco]

Your home bees are from swarms, hence likely to be locally adapted and used to flying in your temperatures.
Yout "Buckfast ", by their very name, will have come from elsewhere at least at some point.

Although by this point they're a few generations removed so have a lot of local genes. If making the Buckfast argument then they also are bred to collect a lot of stores efficiently and be frugal so it's arguable that the local bees might be flying because they usually have to, despite being fed extra stores relatively, and expending energy foraging at this time of year is less advantageous.

Additionally, collecting pollen can indicate brooding which will allow varroa to increase.

Basically, we risk looking at this with our own biases and drawing conclusions that fit our preconceptions.

See which survive the winter better and bring in the most surplus next year to make a better judgement of which is 'better'.

 

[Swarm]

Your home bees are from swarms, hence likely to be locally adapted and used to flying in your temperatures.
Yout "Buckfast ", by their very name, will have come from elsewhere at least at some point.

Indeed, and probably wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

[user 819]

I barely look at any of my colonies form October to late February, I have fed them and vaped them late Summer /early Autumn . Since October I have probably only been to look at my out apiary colones twice, I hefted them two weeks ago when I vaped them so doubt they will get another visit till mid/late January for another heft.

 

[Paulypaul]

View attachment VID_20231217_123228.mp4
An illustration of my local caught-swarm colonies, right now.
At 10c.

 

[user 11159]

if i walked up to one of my hives at this time of year . and saw that going on.i just might think that was robbing going on..

 

[Wilco]

View attachment 38369

View attachment 38373
An illustration of my local caught-swarm colonies, right now.
At 10c.

I may be missing it but I'm not seeing much pollen, if any, being brought in?

 

[Paulypaul]

I may be missing it but I'm not seeing much pollen, if any, being brought in?

Some pollen and a lot of orientation flights.
Small amounts of yellow pollen, possibly from a nearby field of late-flowering mustard.
Things have quitened down now, as the cloud cover closes in.

 

[user 819]

Maybe out for some fresh air rather then being couped up and sweating under all that plastic wrap.
No need to wrap them up in plastic as the hive are poly.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No need to wrap them up in plastic as the hive are poly.

no need to wrap thrm in plastic in any situation