2nd’s pine boxes

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

jenkinsbrynmair 

International Beekeeper of Mystery
***
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
28,506
Reaction score
6,285
Location
Glanaman,Carmarthenshire,Wales
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Too many - but not nearly enough
There seems to be a reluctance (and even opposition to the idea) of using wax dipping.
I haven't seen a reluctance, rather concerns as to the practicality (things are a wee bit different here at the top of the world)
But I've seen ample evidence of an obsession with it.
 

ericbeaumont 

Drone Bee
***
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,293
Location
North London, West Essex and Surrey
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
70
I would have thought that a responsible supplier would either have stopped selling such carp or done something about the quality. You could make hives out of cardboard
The obligation to provide bees with kit (good enough for the job) lies not with a supplier but with the buyer. If cardboard hives were on sale you can bet someone would buy (think of the savings!) and complain later.

This debate may have begun as a way to rescue poor kit but really it's about how to choose to spend money. I've never bought a Lottery ticket nor been tempted by a Netflix subscription but choose instead to spend on kit for the long-term, for hive thermal efficiency, for commonality and least labour and faff. End result is that I may spend more in the short term but save in the long.
 

Tim.S 

House Bee
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
315
Reaction score
31
Location
Chichester
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
More than I used to have.
Never, Never, NEVER do hot wax dipping inside a building. Wax dipping is safe if you keep within the safe temperature range. For safety reasons, a wax melting vat should have a hinged lid, which can be flipped down easily, and which fits closely over the top of the vat. In this way it would be easy to smother a fire if the wax was accidentally ignited.
You may have common sense, but having seen our neighbours burn down a full stable block (horses out thankfully) with a stupidly close bonfire I am not sure that a large section of the general public have!🤣
 

Murox 

Queen Bee
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
1,316
Location
Campbeltown Scotland
Hive Type
other
The obligation to provide bees with kit (good enough for the job) lies not with a supplier but with the buyer. If cardboard hives were on sale you can bet someone would buy (think of the savings!) and complain later.......................................
Agreed. However there is also a need to educate people regarding the suitability of some equipment, part of that is the responsibility of the manufacturer. Who would have thought that various langstroth hives boxes are made with incorrect bee space and that the buyer is expected to make it correct. Who would have thought that some National uk hives are not compatible with others. Perhaps its caveat emptor, but you have to know what to look for.
 

bobba 

Field Bee
***
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
535
Reaction score
302
Location
UK - Hampshire
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
4
Having worked with epoxy, polyurethane and MMA resins for over 30 years I agree they are extremely hard wearing but they all have their week points. I would say that the main problem with epoxy is that it is generally very hard so excellent for concrete, stone or brick but not good on wood. Any flexing of the substrate or denting can cause minute cracking and long term penetration. Once this has occurred any penetration into the ply will cause rapid delamination. If you really want to use expensive resin coatings on ply I would suggest a flexible polyurethane.
As others have said, if you want a cheap long lasting wooden hive buy seconds in the sales.
I wondered the same about the possibility of cracking. But figured they are small so should not expand and contract too much. I painted inside and out so the moisture in the wood is sealed and should remain stable. So far they are like new, but time will tell.

I used to make wind turbines so have used a lot of resins too, mostly epoxy and polyester. I was told way back when that polyurethane was inferior - I don't know why or if that was just in relation to what we used it for.

However after doing a bit of google it looks like polyurethane resins have come a long way in the last 20 years and may have been the better choice.

I think the polyurethane would be a good choice for pine boxes like the op has.

So thanks for the tip, much appreciated.

Including wood, screws, runners and resin, I can make a ply super for a shade under £8. The cheapness was a real help to get over the expense hump when getting started. If you are short on budget and have the tools, time and skills then I recommend. But be warned ply boxes are indeed heavy.....

I had 4 supers on a brood+1/2, and lifting the last super to the top of the stack was killa when almost full. Luckily I borrowed a bee suit from work and got a friend to help me put the clearer board on.

So to save my back I got some ceder seconds to build for next year. It will be ply on the bottom and ceder on the top next year.

ps. thanks JBM for giving me the heads up on a sale
 

fiat500bee 

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
362
Reaction score
252
Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2
There seems to be a reluctance (and even opposition to the idea) of using wax dipping.
This debate may have begun as a way to rescue poor kit but really it's about how to choose to spend money. I've never bought a Lottery ticket nor been tempted by a Netflix subscription but choose instead to spend on kit for the long-term, for hive thermal efficiency, for commonality and least labour and faff. End result is that I may spend more in the short term but save in the long.
The OP specifically ruled out that anyone should suggest that he should buy cedar boxes and was looking for ideas of how to preserve and protect seconds, pine boxes. So the false economy scenario, which I think all of us grown up people do not need explaining to us, is irrelevant. @Wingy has made his decision and already has the boxes. My softwood box is not a second and was bought before I had the benefit of hands-on experience at beekeeping.

Some good suggestions have been put forward and despite a degree of negativity being shown about them there's been some food for thought provided. I've moved on to polyhives but I don't think that the solution to my leaky, twelve-month old pine hive is to chuck it away and buy a cedar one. :banghead:
 

Newbeeneil 

Queen Bee
***
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
2,281
Reaction score
1,272
Location
Sussex
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
40 plus 25 that I maintain for clients.
I wondered the same about the possibility of cracking. But figured they are small so should not expand and contract too much. I painted inside and out so the moisture in the wood is sealed and should remain stable. So far they are like new, but time will tell.

I used to make wind turbines so have used a lot of resins too, mostly epoxy and polyester. I was told way back when that polyurethane was inferior - I don't know why or if that was just in relation to what we used it for.

However after doing a bit of google it looks like polyurethane resins have come a long way in the last 20 years and may have been the better choice.

I think the polyurethane would be a good choice for pine boxes like the op has.

Polyurethanes have certainly improved over the last 25 years and MMAs (which are related to polyesters) are even more flexible both physically and in mixing tolerances.

So thanks for the tip, much appreciated.

Including wood, screws, runners and resin, I can make a ply super for a shade under £8. The cheapness was a real help to get over the expense hump when getting started. If you are short on budget and have the tools, time and skills then I recommend. But be warned ply boxes are indeed heavy.....

If I buy cedar directly from the mill, season and size I can make a super for £6.70 but it takes time and it's so much simpler to pay double and take 25% of the time to put together. - it's also likely to have a better resale value.
I now make the things I can't get in a sale, like underfloor entrance floors, nucs and special boards.


I had 4 supers on a brood+1/2, and lifting the last super to the top of the stack was killa when almost full. Luckily I borrowed a bee suit from work and got a friend to help me put the clearer board on.

So to save my back I got some ceder seconds to build for next year. It will be ply on the bottom and ceder on the top next year.

ps. thanks JBM for giving me the heads up on a sale
 

ericbeaumont 

Drone Bee
***
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,293
Location
North London, West Essex and Surrey
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
70
OP specifically ruled out that anyone should suggest that he should buy cedar boxes and was looking for ideas of how to preserve and protect seconds, pine boxes. So the false economy scenario, which I think all of us grown up people do not need explaining to us, is irrelevant.
Not quite: Wingy said other than buying cedar boxes any advice welcome on how best to preserve & protect these boxes, raising the possibilty that he may not choose the false economy of bargain pine next time.

I agree with Murox, who said there is also a need to educate people regarding the suitability of some equipment. If the false economy message was redundant then suppliers of rubbish would go out of business, but as there are enough of them doing very well it's pretty clear that many beekeepers don't know the difference between a piece of pine and a pineapple.

Buyers fall into two groups: those who believe only that the lowest price is best, and others who have some knowledge of materials and construction and so balance cost against practical use and true value. The job of those with experience is to let the first group know that cheap is more often than not an illusion: nothing irrelevant about that aim.
 

fiat500bee 

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
362
Reaction score
252
Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2
The OP specifically ruled out that anyone should suggest that he should buy cedar boxes and was looking for ideas of how to preserve and protect seconds, pine boxes.
Not quite: Wingy said other than buying cedar boxes any advice welcome on how best to preserve & protect these boxes,
......that's right, he did say that. ;)
 

understanding_bees 

House Bee
***
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
296
Reaction score
235
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hive Type
langstroth
The job of those with experience is to let the first group know that cheap is more often than not an illusion:
Thank you Eric for your comment. Well said!

Please allow me to say (and I am trying to be modest with my claims) that all of my comments on this subject have been based on experience.
 

Arfermo 

Queen Bee
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
2,580
Reaction score
258
Location
Midlands
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Enough
You may have common sense, but having seen our neighbours burn down a full stable block (horses out thankfully) with a stupidly close bonfire I am not sure that a large section of the general public have!🤣
Reminded me of when I was doing my National Service in Germany in 1954 and out on exercise when after dark an RASC driver was refueling inside a farmers barn with a paraffin lamp by his side to see what he was doing in the dark. Nice bonfire - and a huge claim on the Claims Commission no doubt.
 

Erichalfbee 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
24,657
Reaction score
6,078
Location
Ceredigion
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
13
Intelligence is buying a pine beehive? Thank-you.
Either way, I think everyones' extrapolations have gone a bit far here. Don't judge a man by the fabric of his beehive. :laughing-smiley-004
Extrapolations are inversely proportional to how busy we are with the bees.
 

Tommo 

New Bee
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
18
Reaction score
12
Location
Guernsey C.I.
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
20
I have kept bees for forty plus years and until the last few years have always made my hives from shuttering ply. I had the same problem with rot although the ply did last a few years longer before succumbing.
Whatever I tried to protect them was never successful until I started to wrap them in winter.
Now I use mipex which is a weed suppressant polyethylene woven sheet. My early attempts was a couple of turns of this which allowed the hive to breath but more importantly kept it dry. I have more recently added insulation to the inside.

IMG_0876.JPG
 
Top