1st Question - is this normal?

[Bugbyte]

As I said on my 'I'm new here' post we collected a swarm about a week ago and I have just opened the hive to see what is going on.

The bees are on the frames which is good. I could not spot the queen but they did appear to be piling on top of each other in one particular area - so presume the queen was under their mass game of 'pile on'. I think they are queenright as when I collected them they all marched into the box, so the queen should have been in there. There was a small amount of comb forming hanging off the queen extruder which I left in there by mistake, but I couldn't see any on the frames themselves. The bees seem happy during the day and are very placid, but they are not foraging for pollen, just getting drunk at the sugar solution bar. If there are no grubs to feed yet I guess this is OK?

What I am slightly concerned about is lack of comb forming after a week and lack of foraging for pollen. Is this normal for a new swarm in a new hive with just frames and no 'old' comb?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are they not drawing out any of the wax?

 

[Bugbyte]

Only a little on the queen extruder as far as I can tell.

 

[RichardK]

What frames have you put in the hive? Full wax sheets, starter strips, drawn comb....?

 

[Bugbyte]

Standard wax sheets.

 

[drex]

Something is going on. Swarms usually really good at drawing comb. You mentioned the "sugar bar". How and what are you feeding them?

 

[enrico]

Make sure the frames are the right distance apart and remove the queen excluder. There should be nothing above the bees except for the crown board. They will build the comb out but if you give them some sugar syrup at 1:1 it will encourage them. Can you send us a photo?

 

[Boston Bees]

Is this normal for a new swarm in a new hive with just frames and no 'old' comb?

No, it's completely bizarre. A swarm should have an overwhelming urge to build comb. The only thing I can think is that there isn't a queen in there, and they know there isn't any point. Even then I would expect them to still draw comb out.

 

[Bugbyte]

Thanks,
The sugar syrup is 1:1 and they have drunk loads of it - over 100ml today. I will move the queen extruder tomorrow. I think the spacing is correct from what I have seen in other hives. As I say, they appear happy enough and very placid.

 

[Erichalfbee]

100 ml is nothing
I’m agreeing with BB. I bet you dont have a queen in there.
I have a swarm into my bait hive on May 8 and they have drawn out ten 14x12 frames and have a super on.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks,
The sugar syrup is 1:1 and they have drunk loads of it - over 100ml today. I will move the queen extruder tomorrow. I think the spacing is correct from what I have seen in other hives. As I say, they appear happy enough and very placid.

How many frame spaces are they occupying?

 

[Bugbyte]

It was only a small swarm to begin with. They are currently occupying the top half of 3 1/2 frames. It could be that when I put them in the hive there was only 6 frames and they chose to gather on one wall - away form the frames. I added the other 5 frames sprayed with sugar solution on Sunday so thinking about it they were only 'forced' onto the frames two days ago. The other possible cause is the Hive is in more shade than I would like - it gets some morning sun but I may need to move it 5 feet into more sun, and there was no board under the mesh floor until today so maybe they were too cold to draw wax? No excuses for not setting up properly but I got the swarm very unexpectedly after work and it was tipping it down by the time I introduced the swarm to the hive.

Agree about their apatite for sugar solution - they have drunk another 50ml in the last two hours.

There may not be a queen but they seem very insistent on protecting something! As I said, they clump together as soon as I opened the hive.

I may just leave them for a week or so as I don't really want to disturb them and if there isn't a queen there is not a lot I can do about it!

 

[drex]

I would reduce the space. Take out 2- 3 frames and put in insulated dummies.

 

[enrico]

If you know any other beekeeper get a frame with eggs on and throw that into the mix. I think you just have a group of bees with no queen!

 

[Bugbyte]

Thanks for your replies - I will let you know how they get on!

 

[pargyle]

Thanks,
The sugar syrup is 1:1 and they have drunk loads of it - over 100ml today. I will move the queen extruder tomorrow. I think the spacing is correct from what I have seen in other hives. As I say, they appear happy enough and very placid.

So ... what is your hive set up ? You say you have queen excluder on... that implies that you also have a super on the hive as well ? Other people are right, there is something odd going on here. A swarm will build out combs in no time at all and will guzzle down a couuple of litres of 1:1 in a day when they are comb building.

You say it was a small swarm ... do you have a photo of them ?

If the swarm is that small they really need a tiny bit of space .. 2 or 3 frames to start with and dill the rest of the hive dummied down with insulation. If you have a super on, take it off or better still put it on top of a solid crown board and fill the super with insulation.

Without seeing what's going on it's really difficult to pin point the problem ... I suspect, like others that they are either queenless or they are a caste swarm headed up by a virgin. Even then, they would normally be drawing wax like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Boston Bees]

The size of the box isn't the problem. A swarm will draw comb in an open sided barn, or even in the open air up a tree, if that's where it decides to stay permanently, and it's healthy. There's something else going on here. They aren't refusing to draw comb because it's a bit draughty.

 

[Martimart]

Thanks,
The sugar syrup is 1:1 and they have drunk loads of it - over 100ml today. I will move the queen extruder tomorrow. I think the spacing is correct from what I have seen in other hives. As I say, they appear happy enough and very placid.

A swarm I hived recently and when feeding Bee's for winter will drink syrup like no tomorrow. Expect to refill a circular 2ltr rapid feeder 3 times a week.

 

[Bugbyte]

2 1/2 week update.

So the hive is now 2 1/2 weeks old from collecting the swarm and we did an inspection at 11am today. Bees were super calm unlike yesterday when I couldn't even walk past the hive without them bouncing off me. In the hive is a small colony - about a 5th of the size I have seen in other peoples established hives and they have now started to draw out comb - It is now on 2 frames and covers about 1/2 a side on each frame. They are storing honey and pollen which is a relief from last weeks inspection when there was little sign of activity. I still couldn't locate the queen and there are no capped cells or visible eggs / larva / pupa. The worker bees have not made a new queen cell out of desperation, so they appear quite happy but I still have no idea if there is a queen or not. We are feeding them 1:1 syrup with a dog water dispenser from B & M with gravel on the dog bowl part and that is working very well, apart from the fights that break out with the local white tailed bees.

The question is - is it still too early to say if we are Queenless? and if we are is it worth getting one to introduce?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Did you get a test frame in the end as enrico suggested in post 14? They won’t make queen cells if there is no brood. By now I would have expected at least eggs. Has the weather been good?
I wouldn’t waste £30/£40 on a queen fir these. Better spending your money on a nuc Cheap as chips right now.