1:1 Syrup or water down 2:1 (Ambrosia)

[einsteinagogo]

I've got some 2:1 Ambrosia left over from winter feeding, should I water this down to 1:1, or just make some 1:1 for latest nucs, to draw out brood frames, when I transfer into nationals this weekend (weather permitting).

If I do water down Ambrosia, what are the quantities of Ambrosia to Water.

and is this just as simple as

2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water, (I assume a little warming may help dissolving it!).

Should I use Reverse Osmosis water, with less than 10ppm, or normal tap water, I don't suppose many Beekeepers have access to an RO plant or DI plant!

I'm sure there was a spreadsheet posted, somewhere on the forums, if I can find it!

 

[itma]

Use 1:1
Keep Ambrosia pristine. (It stores well.)




Ambrosia is not "2:1"
2:1 pounds : pints is about 63% sugar (sucrose)
Ambrosia is about 73% sugars (fructose, glucose and a little sucrose)
Compare with honey at 80% sugars (fructose, glucose and almost no sucrose)


ADDED
1:1 (imperial) should dissolve easily enough at room temperature.
2:1 (imperial) needs hot water to dissolve fairly quickly
2:1 metric is beyond the solubility of sucrose in water at 20C, so, even if you get it to dissolve in hot water, it will re-precipitate some sugar crystals on cooling.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Thanks for prompt reply...

I just wrote 2:1, I think Ambrosia, is more like 2.7:1

I'm not going to do any maths...

So - 2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water

couple of bags from supermarket, or Aldi....should suffice

ah, found it,. it's here...

A spreadsheet to help with Feed Calculations

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28004&highlight=excel

 

[itma]

...

I'm not going to do any maths...

So - 2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water

…

Well the maths you have done so far is wrong!

That ain't 1:1 either imperial or metric …

Since the use of "1:1" predates adoption of the metric system it definitely used to mean in imperial units. Mixed units, volume for the water (1 imperial - not US - pint), weight for the sugar (1 pound). Thats tradition for you.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Did not do any maths....just did a cut and paste from Conwy Beekeepers' Association – Cymdeithas Gwenynwyr Conwy

I just lifted from here:-

The same evening, give the bees a feeder full of syrup, 2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water. If you feed when the bees are flying you may cause other bees to rob the hive.

Source
http://www.---------------.org.uk/new-beekeepers/how-to-transfer-bees/

Which was what I was trying to work out, what 2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres [/B]of water, on the Ratio Scale!

Which if I work with the spreadsheet, 2.27l 1:1 Sugar Syrup is 1:39kg sugar : 1:39 l of water, which is 1:1

so does it make any difference, If I use pure water, or just tap?

 

[pargyle]

Oh no ... we're in danger of waking the sleeping finn .... he'll be out of hibernation faster than you can say 1:1 .......

 

[itma]

...

Which was what I was trying to work out, what 2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water, on the Ratio Scale!

Which if I work with the spreadsheet, 2.27l 1:1 Sugar Syrup is 1:39kg sugar : 1:39 l of water, which is 1:1

Someone's spreadsheet is either incorrect or being misused.

2kg sugar to 1.5 litres=kilos of water does not turn into equal weights of sugar and water just because Excel seems to say so!

As I tried to explain above "1:1" as spring feed is not metric 1:1
It is actually weaker, more watery - because of the units for one 1 not being the same as for the other 1.
Your recipe is actually even stronger (more sugar) than metric 1:1
At 57% (4/7) sugar it is almost as strong as Imperial 2:1 - which is given to encourage bees to store it.
For expanding a nuc into a hive, they don't want to be storing it, they want to be consuming it and burning up the calories in sweating wax. For which they don't want strong syrup.


But the bees will take it in the end.
And they really don't care about water purity …

 

[itma]

Oh no ... we're in danger of waking the sleeping finn .... he'll be out of hibernation faster than you can say 1:1 .......

I'm going into hibernation now, but he is right that something so simple is widely misunderstood.

 

[pargyle]

I'm going into hibernation now, but he is right that something so simple is widely misunderstood.

Can't disagree with that ... I always thought it was one of the simplest formulas in beekeeping ... and I'm no mathematical genius ... indeed, a half brained one hive owner should be able to work it out ...

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I've got some 2:1 Ambrosia left over from winter feeding, should I water this down to 1:1, or just make some 1:1 for latest nucs, to draw out brood frames, when I transfer into nationals this weekend (weather permitting).

If I do water down Ambrosia, what are the quantities of Ambrosia to Water.

and is this just as simple as

2 x 1kg sugar mixed with 1½ litres of water, (I assume a little warming may help dissolving it!).

Should I use Reverse Osmosis water, with less than 10ppm, or normal tap water, I don't suppose many Beekeepers have access to an RO plant or DI plant!

I'm sure there was a spreadsheet posted, somewhere on the forums, if I can find it!

I'd just make a bit of fresh syrup by mixing 1lb sugar to 1pint (1.25 lb) of water from the tap warmed to 30deg C or a 1 kg bag to 1.25 litres.
Is it actually necessary to feed if your osr flow is on?

 

[sipa]

The maths in the spreadsheet are correct.

As the density of sugars dissolved changes so does the Kg per litre / litre per kg.

The calculations from the Conway beekeepers are in the ball park but aren't accurate, if you use them I'm sure the bees won't complain.

 

[itma]

I'd just make a bit of fresh syrup by mixing 1lb sugar to 1pint (1.25 lb) of water from the tap warmed to 30deg C or a 1 kg bag to 1.25 litres.
Is it actually necessary to feed if your osr flow is on?

Someone is there!

 

[Marton]

What was so certain about imperial 1:1 and 2:1. I haven't seen (but may have missed it) a scientific basis for it rather than metric 1:1 and 2:1.

Is anyone able to point me to the facts rather than instinct, tradition and opinion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[itma]

Metric 2:1 (66.667% sucrose by weight) is (just) beyond the amount that will stay dissolved at 20C.
http://www.sugartech.co.za/solubility/index.php


To stimulate comb-drawing, you would try to simulate a nectar flow.
Nectars are pretty watery. Almost all are well under 50% sugars by weight (sure there are exceptions, a field of Marjoram in flower would be nice). And guess what, 1 pound of sugar to 1 pint of water is on the watery side of 50%.

The convenient (imperial) 1:1 and 2:1 ratios for British beekeepers date back to long before anyone ever dreamed of teaching metric units in British schools. And have been retained, not out of tradition, but because, y'know what, they work for the bees.

 

[BeeJayBee]

What was so certain about imperial 1:1 and 2:1. I haven't seen (but may have missed it) a scientific basis for it rather than metric 1:1 and 2:1.

The imperial 1:1 actually wasn't 1:1 - it was 1lb sugar to 1pint water. One pound of sugar weighs 16 ounces, a pint of water has a volume of 20 fluid ounces and weighs 1 1/4lb at sea level and at, I think, 17C. (Pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter) But it was an easy measurement - 2lb packet of sugar and two milk bottles of water for 1:1.

Bees manage just fine with 1kg sugar to 1 litre water, or 2kg to 1 litre in the autumn. Both seems to dissolve just fine the way I mix them.

As for the maths of the other stuff - I'd store it till needed, mainly because I detest spread sheets and those sort of formulae with an absolute vengeance!