Nuc Method of Swarm Control

Swift Nick · Apr 7, 2019

Last year I used the Wally Shaw Snelgrove ll modified for artificial swarm, it worked well, I recombined the hive about a month later and had a large colony which didn’t attempt to swarm again.
I am tempted to use the same method again this year, but I also wanted to make up some nucs to overwinter, so thought I may use the nuc method of swarm control, removing the queen to a nuc, does anyone use this method and how do they find it works out?

Poly Hive · Apr 7, 2019

I use it all the time and it's my only method. Works very well indeed but the one downside is the number of nuc boxes I need.

PH

Swift Nick · Apr 7, 2019

Thanks PH,
I have a particularly busy spring / summer, so the nuc method being straight forward appeals to me. I was going to follow the method on Dave Cushman’s site.
Is it possible to outline what you do? No worries if not, I appreciate people are busy.
Thanks Nick

masterBK · Apr 7, 2019

The nucleus method works well enough apart from the up to 3 weeks loss of eggs in the main hive which can effect honey production from a flow 6 or so weeks or so later as there will be less foragers to take advantage. It can go wrong also if you miss a second Q cell (other than the one you wish to keep) and they swarm on a virgin.

I demaree my colonies before they get round to making queen cells and find that works really well but maybe not suitable for beginners as you need to recognise when the colony is in the right state to do it.

Swarm · Apr 7, 2019

Remove queen and a couple of brood frames to a nuc, leaving fresh eggs for the colony to replace their queen, works a treat. Do this preemptively.
I have a beekeeper friend in Bulgaria that uses only this method. He laughs at claims of scrub queens and simply points at the hives in his apiaries.

Jonnyl · Apr 7, 2019

I plan on using this method for increase, this will be my first full year, and have a nuc ready. It's a BS nuc and has a divider in the centre. I'm tempted to use it and make two mini nucs. Then when up and running transfer one queen and 3 frames to the hive i have waiting and dummy it down to let it grow through the summer. The remaining 3 frames i then keep in the nuc, expanding it to six frames and use this as back uo and/or to replace my original queen in the autumn. Does this idea seem sound or am i getting ahead of myself? Thank you all for any advice. Cheers

Jonnyl · Apr 7, 2019

I run 14x12 if that makes any difference.

Hivemaker. · Apr 7, 2019

Use a variation of the nuc method here sometimes, depending on the time of season. Used to take the queen along with a frame of brood and a couple of shakes of bees, but now just take the queen and a cup full of bees into a queen excluded mini nuc.

All frames with brood in the colony are shaken off and all queen cells destroyed, making sure they still have some eggs, at the next inspection, again all the emergency cells are destroyed and a marked frame containing eggs and larvae is put into the colony, next inspection only one frame to check this time, again all emergency cells on this frame are destroyed and the clipped queen put back into the colony, during this time the queen will of fattened back up, the bee numbers in the colony will be slightly reduced, there will be plenty of empty cells in the colony... and they will of got over the swarming impulse, they usually then settle down for the rest of the season with no further swarming urges.

If the queen is not worth putting back, then a new young clipped queen is introduced instead, the old queen has in the meantime established a mini nuc with brood and can be bopped off and replaced with a ripe cell from the incubator.

Newbeeneil · Apr 7, 2019

Swift Nick said:
Thanks PH,
I have a particularly busy spring / summer, so the nuc method being straight forward appeals to me. I was going to follow the method on Dave Cushman’s site.
Is it possible to outline what you do? No worries if not, I appreciate people are busy.
Thanks Nick

Hi Nick this may be worth a read.
https://theapiarist.org/blog/

Poly Hive · Apr 7, 2019

It's pretty straight forward. I (LOL) find the queen and put her and a couple of frames in a nuc, then make up a further two with a single cell preferably sealed. I leave an open cell in the main unit. Stand well back and let them get on with it. Each nuc starts with two frames of brood so its a fair hit to the main colony. However as I am not moving to Heather it makes no odds.

PH

Murox · Apr 7, 2019

Jonnyl said:
I plan on using this method for increase, this will be my first full year, and have a nuc ready. It's a BS nuc and has a divider in the centre. I'm tempted to use it and make two mini nucs. Then when up and running transfer one queen and 3 frames to the hive i have waiting and dummy it down to let it grow through the summer. The remaining 3 frames i then keep in the nuc, expanding it to six frames and use this as back uo and/or to replace my original queen in the autumn. Does this idea seem sound or am i getting ahead of myself? Thank you all for any advice. Cheers

A couple of thoughts - have you got drawn comb to use? shifting just 3 frames into a brood box - use insulation to dummy it down and I suggest that you feed it continuously until winter, they will collect some nectar and pollen of course but on rainy non flying days they can use syrup. Why replace your original queen, is she so old? And assuming the 6 frame nucleus develops ok you should have time to get that into a hive and create a new 6 frame nucleus to over winter. Just depends on your ambitions really.

Swift Nick · Apr 8, 2019

Thanks all, some interesting advice, I think this method will suit my busy spring / summer.

Poly Hive · Apr 8, 2019

For me it covers the bases. Swarming is controlled. Main point.

Queen is preserved if wanted and if not its the price of a cell.

Three nucs mean mating is insured as one out of the four is pretty much guaranteed to mate well.

The spare nucs can be used to boost or to Winter. The options are many.

Once you have the kit, that's it.

PH

Jonnyl · Apr 8, 2019

Thanks for your reply Murox. I have 4 drawn frames which are full of stores. I was thinking 1 frame withcan open QC from the hive, one of brood and one of capped stores (scratched) to initiate them feeding and in doing so emptying the comb for use by the new queen. And, as you suggested, feeding regularly. When in the full hive should i place the frames in the middle of the hive, dummy and insulate, or at the front of the hive? The queen is in her second year but I've often read it may be better not to have her older than that. Shame as she is a good queen, in my limited experience. Calm, hardy bees and she lays well in a good pattern.

Murox · Apr 8, 2019

Jonnyl said:
Thanks for your reply Murox. I have 4 drawn frames which are full of stores. I was thinking 1 frame withcan open QC from the hive, one of brood and one of capped stores (scratched) to initiate them feeding and in doing so emptying the comb for use by the new queen. And, as you suggested, feeding regularly. When in the full hive should i place the frames in the middle of the hive, dummy and insulate, or at the front of the hive? The queen is in her second year but I've often read it may be better not to have her older than that. Shame as she is a good queen, in my limited experience. Calm, hardy bees and she lays well in a good pattern.

Frames in middle of hive and expand nest steadily. You are going to need drawn brood frames. Drawn comb really is like gold, drawing foundation means the bees consume large amounts of nectar in the process.
You can read up on ways to get comb drawn. One method which works well on double brood or brood and a half - put a box tightly filled with frames of foundation placed over a queen excluder during a flow. When the combs have been drawn, filled and ripened they can be extracted and used.
Maybe you should consider buying in a mated queen from a known source ?

Jonnyl · Apr 8, 2019

Yes Murox, I've read about the 2nd brood box option however this would occupy the bees for a considerable time and put them off swarming? And only having one hive I'm very keen to increase in case i lose the first hive. I have added a couple of frames, one at a time, and fed them to make some drawn comb in anticipation abd they are taking the feed but drawing is slow probably due to temperature. My teaching at the bee club has indoctrinated me (in a good way)into not buying in queens and I'd like to rear my own in any case and honey production is secondary to me at least at this stage. Is there any pitfalls i should avoid in the original idea of creating two nucs in the one box? I'd like to keep the present queen as back up in the nuc as a donor colony as she has been a good, reliable queen and she will only be two this year. Thanks

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Murox · Apr 8, 2019

Jonnyl said:
....this would occupy the bees for a considerable time and put them off swarming? And only having one hive I'm very keen to increase in case i lose the first hive. I have added a couple of frames, one at a time, and fed them to make some drawn comb in anticipation abd they are taking the feed but drawing is slow probably due to temperature. My teaching at the bee club has indoctrinated me (in a good way)into not buying in queens and I'd like to rear my own in any case and honey production is secondary to me at least at this stage. Is there any pitfalls i should avoid in the original idea of creating two nucs in the one box? I'd like to keep the present queen as back up in the nuc as a donor colony as she has been a good, reliable queen and she will only be two this year. Thanks

Yes hang on to your queen. I understand your position, but its easy to say don't buy in a known source queen when you have multiple hives. Do you know what drones you have in the area , because your swarm queen will mate with a lot of them, for good or bad. As you are starting out, and if I were you, I should tend towards sourcing at least one known mated queen and initially put her into a full size nucleus. Then move forwards.

Jonnyl · Apr 8, 2019

And where/how would i go about sourcing a queen? If no idea how the system operates and it would be prudent to know in any case. Cheers. X

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foghornleghorn · Apr 8, 2019

Poly Hive said:
I use it all the time and it's my only method. Works very well indeed but the one downside is the number of nuc boxes I need.

PH

Do you keep a nuc box for every hive?

Eyeman · Apr 8, 2019

Swarm said:
Remove queen and a couple of brood frames to a nuc, leaving fresh eggs for the colony to replace their queen, works a treat. Do this preemptively.
I have a beekeeper friend in Bulgaria that uses only this method. He laughs at claims of scrub queens and simply points at the hives in his apiaries.

That was Brother Adam's preferred method. Only problem was the colonies' population dropped before the healther so he switched over to knocking down queen cells.

Nuc Method of Swarm Control

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